A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone • Hacker News Board

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#181

Post by garaetjjte » Tue, May 04, 2021, 10:51 PM UTC

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #110

annoyingnoob wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Volvo has a cellular radio in it that I cannot disable with pulling a fuse for a bunch of things. I've always assumed that the car uploads everything to Volvo without my knowledge or permission. I'll bet law enforcement can just ask Volvo for my data without needing a tool.

Apparently new cars sold since 2018 have to have a way to automatically contact emergency services after a crash, so they all probably come with a SIM card: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECall My guess is the manufacturer wants to upload "diagnostic" data, they would just use that same SIM card. And you probably can't disable it because it's a legal requirement (or, maybe you can on your Volvo?). Maybe one could just…

It seems there are eCall dedicated SIM cards, which cannot be used for other purposes. Though I'm confused why it is required at all, as you don't need any SIM card to call 112 emergency number.

>The in-vehicle system has a valid SIM that enables the provision of the eCall service. It is to be configured only for making an eCall, or it could also be used, in addition and as optional, for commercial service provision. In the first case, the IVS will be in a dormant mode (not traceable and active only in case of eCall triggering)

https://eena.org/wp-content/uploads/eCall-and-open-issues-20...

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#182

Post by leesalminen » Tue, May 04, 2021, 10:53 PM UTC

specktr wrote: post #153

throwawayboise wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wirecutters. Find the antenna and clip the wire.

Ill be buying a new car this summer and seriously considering doing this or other hardware mods to disable any modems/telemetry. Does anyone know of any forums or something similar dedicated to these types of car hardware mods?

I've seen some posts on the various Toyota 4Runner forums about this. I'd check out the forums dedicated to your specific make/model.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#183

Post by alliao » Tue, May 04, 2021, 11:06 PM UTC

cnasc wrote: post #177

sokoloff wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ABS does not significantly shorten stopping distances. It does provide improved steering control during brake applications that would otherwise exceed available traction, but I think it's extremely rare that ABS would be the difference between a pedestrian collision vs not. (They could just as easily choose a car that didn't have ABS as originally equipped and no one would say anything about the omission.)

> They could just as easily choose a car that didn't have ABS as originally equipped and no one would say anything about the omission. That’s the kind of failure case I wish fancy electronics had. Component breaks = now you’re driving a lower trim-level. As opposed to $5000 touchscreen module dies and now you can’t use the car.

you do realise the point of things breaking is so that people would be coerced to make a new purchase...

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#184

Post by alliao » Tue, May 04, 2021, 11:10 PM UTC

second--shift wrote: post #137

jmnicolas wrote: post #54

So do I have to ride horses to get my privacy back now? I would totally buy a brand new car without all the "visible" electronics (by visible I mean all the screens and doodads. I don't mind ABS and other "invisible" electronics as long as they are reliable which is not a given nowadays). I don't get the point of turning the interior of a car into a smartphone experience. I watched a YT video of a Mercedess class S r…

> So do I have to ride horses to get my privacy back now? You say this in jest, but depending on your locale and transport needs, you could consider a motorcycle or bicycle. The interface is a bit like riding a horse, just more 21st century (obviously). Modern bikes come with ABS and fuel injection, and tires these days are great. Motorcycles don't come with any of the annoying road-car nanny-state stuff. Riding a bi…

I recall that fatalities per distance traveled of bikes is atrocious, like orders of magnitude higher than a car

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#185

Post by bigiain » Tue, May 04, 2021, 11:21 PM UTC

alliao wrote: post #184

second--shift wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So do I have to ride horses to get my privacy back now? You say this in jest, but depending on your locale and transport needs, you could consider a motorcycle or bicycle. The interface is a bit like riding a horse, just more 21st century (obviously). Modern bikes come with ABS and fuel injection, and tires these days are great. Motorcycles don't come with any of the annoying road-car nanny-state stuff. Riding a bi…

I recall that fatalities per distance traveled of bikes is atrocious, like orders of magnitude higher than a car

Right on one order of magnitude where I come from (.au)

Which is still, while perhaps not as “atrocious” as plural “orders of magnitude”, without doubt something people considering riding bikes be fully aware of and prepared to accept the risk/consequences of.

I personally believe you can manage that risk. But I might be bullshitting myself because I want to ride because I enjoy it a lot. 32 years and approaching 1 million km on the bikes I own with my most serious injury being a dislocated shoulder is a fun/consequence ratio I’m happy enough to live with. (I suspect my decision there might be different if I had children or other similar responsibilities…)

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#186

Post by m463 » Tue, May 04, 2021, 11:24 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #65

yardie wrote: post #57

One of the cars I rented (A Ford using the Sync console) had bluetooth contacts synced from the previous renter. It was just sitting there: names, phone numbers, addresses, email addresses. Being privacy conscious I deleted the contacts and the 20+ bluetooth profiles stored in the console.

I am always shocked when people make these sorts of pairings with devices they don't even own. I often see employees pairing person phones with corporate fleet vehicles too. It's unfortunately an example of where people rank convenience over privacy almost every single time.

Many of them by default upload all the contacts. The iphone in the beginning would do it, but eventually they changed it to ask during bluetooth pairing.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#187

Post by bigiain » Tue, May 04, 2021, 11:24 PM UTC

tremon wrote: post #166

sjg007 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Unfortunately, modern regulations forbid manufacturers from easily making a "dumb car". This is not true.

See https://globalcar.com/11-car-safety-systems-to-become-mandat... . I won't list them all, just the non-dumb features: - Alcohol interlock installation facilitation and attention detection - Emergency stop signal (aka autonomous braking) - Intelligent speed assistance (aka adaptive cruise control) - Lane keeping assist - Reversing camera or detection system All these systems require the car to be aware of its surro…

You’re right that those sort of rules require some kind of “smarts”.

None of them seem to require recording or log files.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#188

Post by _hyn3 » Tue, May 04, 2021, 11:24 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #159

epanchin wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or cheap, vs the cost of running someone down.

ABS does not significantly shorten stopping distances. It does provide improved steering control during brake applications that would otherwise exceed available traction, but I think it's extremely rare that ABS would be the difference between a pedestrian collision vs not. (They could just as easily choose a car that didn't have ABS as originally equipped and no one would say anything about the omission.)

It does in skid conditions by detecting the slippage and releasing and reapplying the brake far faster than you could alone.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#189

Post by genocidicbunny » Tue, May 04, 2021, 11:24 PM UTC

bashinator wrote: post #180

Loughla wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, non-tactile buttons on a car seems ridiculous. You HAVE to look away from the road to do anything. Tactile buttons let you feel around to do things if you need to. That change has made zero sense to me.

Isn’t Mazda discontinuing use of touch screens?

That is their plan as far as I know. And even before that, their interfaces have generally been pretty good about tactility. My '17 does have a touchscreen, but it is entirely optional and everything can be controlled using physical controls.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#190

Post by m463 » Tue, May 04, 2021, 11:24 PM UTC

gnfargbl wrote: post #95

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am always shocked when people make these sorts of pairings with devices they don't even own. I often see employees pairing person phones with corporate fleet vehicles too. It's unfortunately an example of where people rank convenience over privacy almost every single time.

I'm not sure that most people would see taking a copy of their phone contacts as a serious invasion of privacy. Maybe your mind (and the mind of many HN readers) quickly skips to the various social engineering and metadata attacks that such a dataset could enable, but the average guy on the street is more likely to think "what are you going to do, call my hairdresser?"

I just think they have to be educated.