A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone • Hacker News Board

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#111

Post by kingsuper20 » Tue, May 04, 2021, 8:07 PM UTC

wolverine876 wrote: post #24

Is there a reliable list of cars that do not surveil me, or that can be modified to not surveil me? I read a Bruce Schneier article a little while ago (maybe the article was much older) where he said that he looked, but didn't find one that met his other needs.

I suspect that insurance coverage is going to require strong telemetry at some point.

Obviously a person could pick a car of a given year/model that meets their needs and rebuild it forever, at least until the government or (once again) the insurance companies regulate you out of it. It's for the children after all.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#112

Post by dimmke » Tue, May 04, 2021, 8:08 PM UTC

This is one of the many reasons that adding screens to cars has been such a failure. All these carmakers were deluded and couldn’t even build custom systems that were pleasant to use, much less secure.

The problem is only partially solved by CarPlay.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#113

Post by josephcsible » Tue, May 04, 2021, 8:09 PM UTC

mixmastamyk wrote: post #108

josephcsible wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How effective is this today? Don't modern phones refuse to do anything except charge over a USB connection until the user unlocks the phone and trusts the connected host?

I was going to ask this. My iPhone will charge but won't talk to my computer unless I type my PIN and confirm a trust dialog. Don't these cars work the same way? Or is this an Android/BlindlyHittingYes situation?

It's not an Android situation. Android makes you do the same thing.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#114

Post by Zhenya » Tue, May 04, 2021, 8:09 PM UTC

tga wrote: post #81

mywittyname wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your Versa isn't exactly dumb either. It's younger than the iPhone.

You can still buy a brand new Toyota Land Cruiser J70 in 2021. Even though it will be newer than the iPhone 12, it won't spy on you -- because it was designed in 1984. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Land_Cruiser_(J70)

Mechanical design of original platform does NOT limit the OEMs ability to install telecommunications modules and other upgraded electronic.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#115

Post by caseysoftware » Tue, May 04, 2021, 8:10 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #14

“Your phone died, you’re gonna get in the car, plug it in, and there’s going to be this nice convenient USB port for you. When you plug it into this USB port, it’s going to charge your phone, absolutely. And as soon as it powers up, it’s going to start sucking all your data down into the car.” That used to be just something seen in hostile devices. Now it's standard equipment.

I started bringing and charging off those little external battery backup on trips years ago. Not perfect but great in hostile environments.. which is more and more.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#116

Post by dylan604 » Tue, May 04, 2021, 8:14 PM UTC

x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #102

josephcsible wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How effective is this today? Don't modern phones refuse to do anything except charge over a USB connection until the user unlocks the phone and trusts the connected host?

Yes, but we are back at square one, where if I want to use "Chevy Play" or whatever their music player is, I have to battle a legion of dark patterns reaching for my data i.e "Allow this Stop Watch app to not don't allow prohibit from reading contacts"

How I miss the ol standby Aux port with a 1/8" cable.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#117

Post by mixmastamyk » Tue, May 04, 2021, 8:16 PM UTC

13of40 wrote: post #72

mywittyname wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlikely. Based on the article, it sounds like the data they are "vacuuming" up is telemetry data captured and stored by the car itself. Every manufacture is different, but they all are storing at least some information. I suspect there are regulatory requirements to keep such information for the purposes of public safety (see: analysis of Toyota unintended acceleration situations) This information has been captured,…

I wonder if you could at least do something petty, like swap the +12v and GND pins with the Bus+ and Bus- pins on your OBDII connector so it would fry their fancy tool when they tried to read your data.

Smog check will be a problem.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#118

Post by vkou » Tue, May 04, 2021, 8:17 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #65

yardie wrote: post #57

One of the cars I rented (A Ford using the Sync console) had bluetooth contacts synced from the previous renter. It was just sitting there: names, phone numbers, addresses, email addresses. Being privacy conscious I deleted the contacts and the 20+ bluetooth profiles stored in the console.

I am always shocked when people make these sorts of pairings with devices they don't even own. I often see employees pairing person phones with corporate fleet vehicles too. It's unfortunately an example of where people rank convenience over privacy almost every single time.

> I am always shocked when people make these sorts of pairings with devices they don't even own.

I'm not, because of all the random technology trivia and footgun crap that 'everyone' should know, any random person is not going to know a lot of it.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#119

Post by kyleblarson » Tue, May 04, 2021, 8:21 PM UTC

wolverine876 wrote: post #24

Is there a reliable list of cars that do not surveil me, or that can be modified to not surveil me? I read a Bruce Schneier article a little while ago (maybe the article was much older) where he said that he looked, but didn't find one that met his other needs.

Anything built before 2000.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#120

Post by paaakthecaaa » Tue, May 04, 2021, 8:22 PM UTC

jmnicolas wrote: post #54

So do I have to ride horses to get my privacy back now? I would totally buy a brand new car without all the "visible" electronics (by visible I mean all the screens and doodads. I don't mind ABS and other "invisible" electronics as long as they are reliable which is not a given nowadays). I don't get the point of turning the interior of a car into a smartphone experience. I watched a YT video of a Mercedess class S r…

Unfortunately, modern regulations forbid manufacturers from easily making a "dumb car". For example, backup cameras are required in new cars.

It's the same deal with avoiding wire insulation that rodents enjoy eating. Your only option is to buy a car from before 2000-ish.

I'd actually like to find a DIY subculture of taking old car frames and swapping in newer features a bit at a time. People do it with electric motors, but it still seems hard to get decent range/mileage/etc on a DIY EV project.