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On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

residentcontrarian.substack.com

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Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#481

Post by naveen99 »

jedberg wrote: post #234
openasocket wrote: post #148

> if 51% of young men are single and only 31% of women in the same age bracket are, that implies something is up So that statistic really confuses me, how could that be the case? The data seems to imply a significant number of women are dating men far older than themselves, which just doesn't seem true to me. I'm wondering if that is a sampling error or different genders are interpreting the question differently. It…

> the average number of relationships for men and women should be identical! When those studies say average they usually mean median. Imagine a population with 10 men and 10 women. 3 of the men sleep with each woman once. The average hookups for both men and women are three each, but the median for men is none while the median for women is three. This is a contrived example, normally in each population you'd have out…

seems women's ideal sex frequency is lower than men’s. what to do ?

The market answer is to price relationships with women, weather short or long term. And the market does do this, under various names in increasing cost: hookups, porn, escort, dating, mistress, marriage.

People just don’t always manage risk: children, disease, divorce, alimony, dying married bedroom, aging...

banning / discouraging prostitution favors women over men. But it harms men more than it helps women.

Interestingly, encouraging female promiscuity actually work economically in the same direction as prostitution by adding to the total number of sexual encounters involving women (ie in favor of men, lowering the price of sex with women)

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#482

Post by luminaobscura »

jfengel wrote: post #407
tryonenow wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with the definition of equality within the modern feminist movement is that it does not make allowance for the social power that females intrinsically have over men. In particular it completely ignores that, as in the vast majority of sexually dimorphic species, women are (at social scales) effectively the gatekeepers of the bedroom, and this gives females massive influence over male behavior. The dominan…

That's not "gatekeeping the bedroom". That's called "bodily autonomy". They're allowed to decide who gets to stick what inside their body -- exactly the same as you have. You appear to resent women for being allowed to decide what happens to their own bodies. You also seem to think that this is the only thing in society that actually matters -- that this one thing gives women all of the power. I believe you should re…

Who said Bodily autonomy is bad? They are just explaining the consequences of it in human species.

Access to women's body obviously important for men (sex, kids etc.). Why is this even a question?

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#483

Post by CarelessExpert »

thepasswordis wrote: post #67
benlivengood wrote: post #4

> I got absurdly lucky when I found my wife, but I spent every day without her more or less miserable. It’s arguable she’s the only reason I’m able to be happy. I imagine some of these men are similar to me in the loneliness and not as lucky in finding someone, and it’s impossible for me to not feel something. This is basically a red flag for any relationship. If the only thing making or allowing a person to be happy…

>This is basically a red flag for any relationship. No it isn't. My grandparents, who were married for 60 years had this mentality. My wife's grandparents, who were married for a similar amount of time, also shared this mentality. My wife's parents still share this mentality (and are obviously completely devoted to one another, which you will notice if you spend about 5 seconds with them). My parents divorced, which…

> the ones who have been in marriages that have lasted the entire lives are generally completely devoted to one another,

I've been happily married for 17 years and have been with my wife for over 20.

Trust me: there is a big BIG difference between being deeply devoted to your spouse and being co-dependent on them such that you cannot be happy during their absence.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#484

Post by RichardCA »

thelean12 wrote: post #327
tachyonbeam wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one bitter truth about life: (almost) everyone needs some amount of physical intimacy to be happy, but it's not something anyone is entitled to. Those of us who have access to that are privileged. I agree with the author though. IMO the existence of so many "incels" is some expression of a real societal problem. Many young men are suffering, and we don't acknowledge their suffering as genuine. We just tell the…

> if you can't get women, it's entirely your fault I'm curious, and this will probably be too curt but I am honestly trying to figure it out: Whose fault is it? Because incels believe it's the women's fault, and this message is the opposite. It doesn't seem productive to tell them that it's society's fault or some other external thing. What are they supposed to do about that? Most men that I know, including myself, f…

It's the old Joseph Campbell quote, how regrets are just illuminations come too late.

https://www.jcf.org/works/quote/every-failure-to-cope-with-a...

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#485

Post by QuercusMax »

ayyy wrote: post #176
thatguy0900 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they are conflating needing sex with deserving or being garunteed sex.

Yes, I've conflated the idea of "needing" something with the idea of "deserving" something. For example, some people need food, but they don't deserve it just because they're alive. We call that hunger. Other people need housing, but they don't deserve it just because they're alive. We call that homelessness. Some need sex, but they don't deserve it just because they're alive. We call those people incels.

Why don't you think people deserve housing and food, in the richest country in the history of the world? Our society could absolutely provide them, it just doesn't because they're "not worthy".

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#486

Post by piva00 »

kova12 wrote: post #467
piva00 wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you are moving the goalposts, the statement in discussion is this: > I got absurdly lucky when I found my wife, but I spent every day without her more or less miserable. This is not healthy, doesn't matter how much you care about your partner and relationship. Feeling miserable every day without someone is not a good sign. You can be much happier when you are with your partner, you can enjoy to spend most days wi…

Don't you think this might have been figure of speech rather than statement of fact?

No, I really don't given the whole paragraph:

> I was a bit of an oddity in that I was anticipating marriage since early adolescence; that outsized-value for relationships came with what I feel were comparably overgrown feelings of loneliness. I got absurdly lucky when I found my wife, but I spent every day without her more or less miserable. It’s arguable she’s the only reason I’m able to be happy. I imagine some of these men are similar to me in the loneliness and not as lucky in finding someone, and it’s impossible for me to not feel something.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#487

Post by colinmhayes »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #414
colinmhayes wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an opinion, not a fact.

It's a generalization about social trends. These traits often show on a bell curve, with some outliers on each side, but those outliers don't mean that the trend isn't real.

source?

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#488

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

a_band wrote: post #280
gustavo-fring wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't be ignored but that rise was caused by and coincides with a ton of other cultural, social, and technological changes.

I agree. But porn directly targets sexual behavior and response. It's the sugar soda to obesity. But to singly focus on it would also be a mistake.

I agree about the porn thing, but I'd argue that is not so much one of the major issues surrounding it so much as teens not having sex at the rates they used to. More teens are entering college as virgins, men aren't being taught how to navigate social/sexual relationships by their fathers or friends, media content online holds greater value over real personal relationships, and frankly videogames nowadays have all but turned into time wasting gambling. I mean if you put a weak willed person in a room with any vice they'd want, they're gonna fail. And we're packed to the brim with vices. Now how do you expect any impressionable young man growing up to not become jaded because dating is bar none more difficult than it has ever been? Not only that, the fear of getting the girl pregnant and she keeps it or divorce. I feel like with all the stories about how men appear to get the short end of the stick oftentimes, it's led to a jaded understanding of the system.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#489

Post by jimmaswell »

usbline wrote: post #330
jnwatson wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are social animals. The size of our brains, ability to use language, are all "nature's" solutions to social problems. That women are deep down attracted to men of status is hard-wired, and the result of thousands of years of natural selection. The nexus among status-seeking behavior, current economic realities, and the changing marketplace of dating, is the primary driver behind "incels". In other words, natur…

>status-seeking behavior not nature >current economic realities not nature >the changing marketplace of dating again, not nature

When a monkey vies for status in its group, it's nature, but when a human does the same thing, it's not?

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#490

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

tayo42 wrote: post #69
temp667 wrote: post #27

Is this too simplistic? Take care of yourself - health (mental and physical etc). Sex work should be legal if there is a "market failure" as the article argues. If someone doesn't want sex in a relationship and other person does - any way to negotiate something - ie, get on tinder for one person or whatever if the issue isn't so critical to break up over? Is porn a problem? ie, perception everyone getting lots of cra…

Kind of interesting, I really have no idea what peoples sex life is like on average. Idk how you can find out, no one wants to talk about it. So either porn or the rare few that do want to talk about it. But those few are going to be such outliers they're likely not average or just lieing

So few people talk about it ever that as far as I'm aware, all these children born nowadays have all been immaculately conceived.
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