Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

theintercept.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 253 posts

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#61

Post by saruken »

kgwxd wrote: post #34
a_e_k wrote: post #8

I live in Washington State, where the state legislature recently voted to ban sales of gasoline powered cars after 2030. Aside from the fact that I enjoy drives through some pretty empty parts of the country, especially in the Southwest, where range is a concern (e.g., I drove the Great Basin Highway a few years ago), what bothers me about that measure is this sort of data collection thing. I wouldn't mind a move to…

You can't really buy a "dumb" gas car anymore either. I'm holding onto my 2011 Nissan Versa to the bitter end.

Same here with my '93 Saab. I replaced the smart (for its time) HVAC control system with an Arduino running software I wrote, but otherwise it's bone stock.

I'd love an electric too, but the way I figure it, continuing to use a fairly efficient vehicle that already exists is probably better for the environment than buying something new anyway. It takes a lot of resources and material to build a car.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#62

Post by sthnblllII »

mandelbrotwurst wrote: post #44
Forbo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really, really hate this. Why not just require an annual odometer reading and multiply by vehicle weight to determine how much should be owed to cover road and transportation infrastructure costs? Far easier than maintaining a complex system to track every drivers' location over time. Ugh.

Because the goal is as much to collect the location data as it is the tax.

No I think collecting the data is much more the actual goal and the tax is a flimsy pretext.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#63

Post by philsnow »

soco wrote: post #47
salawat wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it has a USB port, it can get data. If you have Android auto or native iOS integration, same story. People need to understand, despite the efforts of sticks in the mud like me, industry should be considered malicious by default. If you don't pay attention to what people are doing and call it out, nobody even raises a finger. Those that do are ignored, or told there's a place for people like them with a condescendi…

Via USB you can still use a USB blocker, but if you connect via Bluetooth, nothing can protect you, correct?

see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27041032 , maybe this isn't universal but in all the cars I've paired my phone to, you can choose both on the phone and on the car whether you want contacts to sync.

I don't trust the car to get it right, but I do trust apple to get it right.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#64

Post by saruken »

rthomas6 wrote: post #19
BlueDingo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, aside from the range like the GP said, will still be fully tracking all usage. Why does the car manufacturer get to see and sell my location information?

Aren't electric vehicles a lot simpler conceptually? No engine, no transmission, etc. Maybe someone could start a company that made the equivalent of a battery with wheels for very cheap.

I'd buy one

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#65

Post by ocdtrekkie »

yardie wrote: post #57

One of the cars I rented (A Ford using the Sync console) had bluetooth contacts synced from the previous renter. It was just sitting there: names, phone numbers, addresses, email addresses. Being privacy conscious I deleted the contacts and the 20+ bluetooth profiles stored in the console.

I am always shocked when people make these sorts of pairings with devices they don't even own. I often see employees pairing person phones with corporate fleet vehicles too. It's unfortunately an example of where people rank convenience over privacy almost every single time.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#66

Post by annoyingnoob »

1024core wrote: post #20

From the marketing material: iVe currently supports AUDI, BMW, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, FIAT, Ford, GMC, HUMMER, Hyundai/Kia, INFINITI, Jeep, Lincoln, Mercedes-Benz, Maserati, Mercury, Nissan, Pontiac, Ram, Saturn, SEAT, Skoda, SRT, Toyota and Volkswagen Now you know which brands to avoid!

My Volvo has a cellular radio in it that I cannot disable with pulling a fuse for a bunch of things. I've always assumed that the car uploads everything to Volvo without my knowledge or permission. I'll bet law enforcement can just ask Volvo for my data without needing a tool.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#67

Post by yardie »

mywittyname wrote: post #42
wolverine876 wrote: post #24

Is there a reliable list of cars that do not surveil me, or that can be modified to not surveil me? I read a Bruce Schneier article a little while ago (maybe the article was much older) where he said that he looked, but didn't find one that met his other needs.

Unlikely. Based on the article, it sounds like the data they are "vacuuming" up is telemetry data captured and stored by the car itself. Every manufacture is different, but they all are storing at least some information. I suspect there are regulatory requirements to keep such information for the purposes of public safety (see: analysis of Toyota unintended acceleration situations) This information has been captured,…

Car telemetry, until recently, is still kind of basic and from a surveillance standpoint not that interesting. It's usually just speed, angles, performance, and electricity. It can tell you when the car was started and how long it ran, but not where it went.

On the other hand, the MIB or stereo, has a lot more interesting stuff: contact lists, GPS data, media, bluetooth devices, and even Wifi. The clock is GPS synced and it logs every time you touch the console: change radio, enter POI, phone calls.

And you can stick one of the new Carplay headunits into any old pre-OBDII car and now enjoy the same level of surveillance. Sony, Kenwood, JVC are all running QNX or Linux . And all of them just has a plethora of information behind some very basic security.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#68

Post by ocdtrekkie »

Forbo wrote: post #41
gscott wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California is running an experiment that collects all of your location data while in a car to collect a gas tax. Of course once they have it they will make it available for any government agency.

I really, really hate this. Why not just require an annual odometer reading and multiply by vehicle weight to determine how much should be owed to cover road and transportation infrastructure costs? Far easier than maintaining a complex system to track every drivers' location over time. Ugh.

I suspect being able to assign infrastructure money to the correct county public works departments is a thing. And even on the more simple sense, your odometer read would let California tax people for miles they drove outside of California.

Not that I support this initiative at all, but your suggestion misses some key issues.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#69

Post by spookthesunset »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #65
yardie wrote: post #57

One of the cars I rented (A Ford using the Sync console) had bluetooth contacts synced from the previous renter. It was just sitting there: names, phone numbers, addresses, email addresses. Being privacy conscious I deleted the contacts and the 20+ bluetooth profiles stored in the console.

I am always shocked when people make these sorts of pairings with devices they don't even own. I often see employees pairing person phones with corporate fleet vehicles too. It's unfortunately an example of where people rank convenience over privacy almost every single time.

I mean, most people wouldn’t suspect all their contacts would get copied over to the rental car. Before CarPlay I’d routinely “just hit okay” my way though pairing my phone to the rental car.

Re: A CBP contract shows the risks in connecting your vehicle and your smartphone

#70

Post by twobitshifter »

1024core wrote: post #29
kgwxd wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that leaves Hot Wheels.

Honda, Subaru, Tesla too.

Tesla may not work with this tool but they’re definitely beaming data home all the time. If your privacy Conscious I wouldn’t think Tesla spoiled be on your list.
Post reply on HN