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On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

residentcontrarian.substack.com

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Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#31

Post by throwaway98797 »

jvidalv wrote: post #14
benlivengood wrote: post #4

> I got absurdly lucky when I found my wife, but I spent every day without her more or less miserable. It’s arguable she’s the only reason I’m able to be happy. I imagine some of these men are similar to me in the loneliness and not as lucky in finding someone, and it’s impossible for me to not feel something. This is basically a red flag for any relationship. If the only thing making or allowing a person to be happy…

As a lone wolf I totally disagree. I think that we are engineered to have sexual and romantic partners by default. And there are some, like me, that somehow we can live without one and not fall into addiction traps ( drugs, party, videogames... ). But we all have friends ( most ) that are not like this, the difference for most of them between being single or not is big, and I don’t agree that they are depressed its j…

Most people need comfort for the misery of their lives.

some choose food (obesity), some choose crazy partners (tend to be great in bed but bad in life), other choose video games (sense of accomplishment), and others try to help others as a way of hiding from themselves.

most people are running, some though are doing it in a socially acceptable way. but the root cause is the same.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#32

Post by toomuchtodo »

Pfhreak wrote: post #19
edgyquant wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah people who say this are so wrong, companionship and a significant other is a required for a fulfilled life for a majority of people. We evolved to have this, and most people need it. You shouldn’t depend on one for happiness, but there is nothing wrong or weird about longing for one.

On the flip side, however, no one owes you companionship or a relationship (platonic or not). If you are struggling to fulfill that need, it's on you to improve yourself through building skills, seeking therapy, finding appropriate medications, or whatever else. Pushing the blame outwards to some other group for not bending to fulfill your needs is a real problematic stance.

Totally, but most people are not emotionally well adjusted or in a place where they an introspect and build themselves up to be the better version of themselves. A lot of folks would be helped by therapy and having someone to talk through to work through this (but that's a healthcare conversation, which we don't have to devolve into here).

I unequivocally do not condone folks who go off the rails in ways that cause harm to others (self destruction and harm is similar, but a different conversation), but I've seen enough mental health challenges and crises to understand why it happens. In general, life is hard, and no one is coming to save you except yourself.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#33

Post by flatline »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #7
benlivengood wrote: post #4

> I got absurdly lucky when I found my wife, but I spent every day without her more or less miserable. It’s arguable she’s the only reason I’m able to be happy. I imagine some of these men are similar to me in the loneliness and not as lucky in finding someone, and it’s impossible for me to not feel something. This is basically a red flag for any relationship. If the only thing making or allowing a person to be happy…

>having a romantic and sexual relationship is not a requirement for a happy life. It is for many, many, many people.

I believe everyone is capable of being happy in their own company. It may take a lifetime of work for some people to achieve this. We are social creatures and human interaction is essential for our well-being, but that doesn't mean you can't have your own personal goals and interests or just simply enjoy time with yourself: you are a human being in your own company, too! Frankly without that ability you are not going to have healthy relationships with others no matter how good looking or successful you are. I know so many unhappy couples that put on a good front. I was part of one for years.

In the West in particular we are crippled with insecurity, anxiety and doubt. Are we masculine/feminine enough? Do we fit the image we have of other people's desires? We have incredible wealth and abundance and feel like shit. It's a societal ill as well as a personal one. It is possible to practice contentment, gratitude, and self-compassion and acceptance, these are just things that are not taught or idealized in our culture. I do think the mindfulness movement, commercialized though it may be, has something to offer to modern secular society.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#35

Post by the_jeremy »

benlivengood wrote: post #4

> I got absurdly lucky when I found my wife, but I spent every day without her more or less miserable. It’s arguable she’s the only reason I’m able to be happy. I imagine some of these men are similar to me in the loneliness and not as lucky in finding someone, and it’s impossible for me to not feel something. This is basically a red flag for any relationship. If the only thing making or allowing a person to be happy…

> having a romantic ... relationship is not a requirement for a happy life

Do you think having friends is a requirement for a happy life? It's not strictly necessary, but they are a positive factor, and most people will not be happy entirely devoid of friendship.

Having a partner is a friend you commit to and are closer with than other friends (generalization, sure). I have friends who I would not support through depression, but I would support my partner through depression. Needing someone like that is not unhealthy. It will be difficult to find someone willing to give the same commitment to your friendship as to their partner (generalization again).

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#36

Post by edgyquant »

Pfhreak wrote: post #19
edgyquant wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah people who say this are so wrong, companionship and a significant other is a required for a fulfilled life for a majority of people. We evolved to have this, and most people need it. You shouldn’t depend on one for happiness, but there is nothing wrong or weird about longing for one.

On the flip side, however, no one owes you companionship or a relationship (platonic or not). If you are struggling to fulfill that need, it's on you to improve yourself through building skills, seeking therapy, finding appropriate medications, or whatever else. Pushing the blame outwards to some other group for not bending to fulfill your needs is a real problematic stance.

Indeed, you shouldn’t based your identity around it or blame others (e.g. incels) but at the same time you shouldn’t be made to field there’s something wrong with you for wanting it. Like most things there is a balance to be found. I think the stars every day that I failed my way into relationships for most of my life and I can’t imagine the struggle of these individuals.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#37

Post by tomc1985 »

Have there been any comparative studies on this phenomenon between countries with legalized sex work and countries without? I live in a country where it is illegal and have gone through very long dry spells, and let me tell you it is extremely frustrating.

If love, sex, and relationships are as core to people's self-confidence as the author makes it out to be, it seems imperative to let people have access to those things in at least some form. I've certainly been envious of those countries where I would have the option to order up a temporary lover, and the useful-if-fleeting confidence boost that comes with.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#38

Post by mustafa_pasi »

benlivengood wrote: post #4

> I got absurdly lucky when I found my wife, but I spent every day without her more or less miserable. It’s arguable she’s the only reason I’m able to be happy. I imagine some of these men are similar to me in the loneliness and not as lucky in finding someone, and it’s impossible for me to not feel something. This is basically a red flag for any relationship. If the only thing making or allowing a person to be happy…

What a banal comment. You understand precisely nothing and you start proclaiming solutions that make no sense and then you even have the gal to psychoanalyze the health of the author's relationship. A perfect example of the attitude of some that refuse to even try to empathize with others.

Your problem is that you just have no ability to comprehend a situation that is not very similar to your life. So for you, anyone who acts in a way that you do not understand is obviously acting up and doing it wrong, rather than acting in a way that makes sense given the person's circumstances.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#40

Post by edgyquant »

throwawayboise wrote: post #8
MattGaiser wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the fuzzier "equity" vs "equality" debate.

Or equality of opportunity vs equality in outcomes.

I’ve seen this thrown around by Jordan Peterson and his fans but I’ve never met anyone, regardless of how crazy their ideology was, advocate for equality of outcomes outside of basic necessities. I’m convinced it’s a strawman.
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