Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 55 posts

Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting

#31

Post by SamBam »

extra88 wrote: post #28
SamBam wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we were to try to get into it as a group discussion it would be very painful and divisive. This really sounded to me as " if I were allowed to tell you my true feelings about all this, a lot of you would be angry ," or " oh, if it's open-season on white men, let me tell you I can dish it on the rest of you... lucky for you I'm not allowed to ."

People did get angry at what he did say so there's no need to concoct thoughts in his head. If the reporting is accurate, his words were twisted. He said "I strongly disagree we live in a white supremacist culture" (meaning American culture) which another employee changes to "white supremacy doesn’t exist." Based on what was reported, I don't know why Singer was suspended. I do understand why he resigned, given the r…

Because of what he chose to say. There was no need to go from "if we're going to talk about race" to "I will deliberately say things that will make everybody mad."

That was exactly my point.

Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting

#32

Post by sfreiberg »

pc86 wrote: post #29
sfreiberg wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wallace asked President Trump whether he was willing to denounce “white supremacists and militia groups,” and Trump answered, "Sure, I'm willing to do that," Not sure how any sane person can claim that isn't denouncing white supremacy but hey don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.

I'm willing to sacrifice my life for my loved ones. But I haven't. Not sure how any sane person can claim that saying you're willing to do something and actually doing it aren't different things. He said he was willing to do something but then... never did it.

This is demonstrably false. He did this at least 20 times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tug8PoAa7Bg

Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting

#33

Post by sfreiberg »

JeremyBanks wrote: post #27
sfreiberg wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wallace asked President Trump whether he was willing to denounce “white supremacists and militia groups,” and Trump answered, "Sure, I'm willing to do that," Not sure how any sane person can claim that isn't denouncing white supremacy but hey don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.

"Sure, I'm willing to do it." "So do it!" "Proud boys, stand by."

Trump did this at least 20 times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tug8PoAa7Bg

Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting

#34

Post by sfreiberg »

JeremyBanks wrote: post #27
sfreiberg wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wallace asked President Trump whether he was willing to denounce “white supremacists and militia groups,” and Trump answered, "Sure, I'm willing to do that," Not sure how any sane person can claim that isn't denouncing white supremacy but hey don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.

"Sure, I'm willing to do it." "So do it!" "Proud boys, stand by."

The Proud Boys were led by a Latino so not sure how they could be a white supremacist group. Also Trump told them to stand down not just stand by. And a more charitable reading could say the stand by was just a slip in a heated debate but either way he clearly told them to stand down.

Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting

#35

Post by anon7725 »

SamBam wrote: post #30
chubbyish wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“This sounded to me like” is the problem. Everyone hears what they want to hear for their narrative. Then it becomes a juicy internet drama rather than some mundane thing.

"If we were to try to get into it as a group discussion it would be very painful and divisive." This sounds more like a threat than a promise. A promise he chose to carry out. Why should it be divisive, if you're actually going to listen? Is it because you'd end up saying things like "white supremacy is a myth" and denying the notion of institutional racism? It sounds a lot to me like the continual "predictions" (thr…

> Why should it be divisive, if you're actually going to listen?

Why should it be divisive, indeed. “America is not a racist country” was just the position expressed by Sen. Tim Scott in a national prime time address, yet it’s enough to force an employee from a company?

Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting

#36

Post by SamBam »

anon7725 wrote: post #35
SamBam wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If we were to try to get into it as a group discussion it would be very painful and divisive." This sounds more like a threat than a promise. A promise he chose to carry out. Why should it be divisive, if you're actually going to listen? Is it because you'd end up saying things like "white supremacy is a myth" and denying the notion of institutional racism? It sounds a lot to me like the continual "predictions" (thr…

> Why should it be divisive, if you're actually going to listen? Why should it be divisive, indeed. “America is not a racist country” was just the position expressed by Sen. Tim Scott in a national prime time address, yet it’s enough to force an employee from a company?

There is actually quite a bit of difference between the statements "America is a racist country" and "institutional racism exists" or even "there exists a belief of white supremacy."

And even between "America isn't a racist country" and "the people who talk about implicit biases are the real racists," which is closer to what he actually said (allegedly).

(And if we want to have this discussion, I bet we could do it in a way that wasn't "painful and divisive," because I have no desire to be those things, so I'm not going to predict/threaten it.)

Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting

#37

Post by taytus »

seriousquestion wrote: post #16

"Two employees told me that they had found themselves crying and screaming at the screen." What...

It seems excessive if you never experienced extreme stress.

It sounded like a comedy sketch, until it happened to me. I wasn't at work, I was at home, but the reaction was the same.

Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting

#38

Post by factsaresacred »

SamBam wrote: post #30
chubbyish wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“This sounded to me like” is the problem. Everyone hears what they want to hear for their narrative. Then it becomes a juicy internet drama rather than some mundane thing.

"If we were to try to get into it as a group discussion it would be very painful and divisive." This sounds more like a threat than a promise. A promise he chose to carry out. Why should it be divisive, if you're actually going to listen? Is it because you'd end up saying things like "white supremacy is a myth" and denying the notion of institutional racism? It sounds a lot to me like the continual "predictions" (thr…

> This sounds more like a threat than a promise

Rather it sounds like a person afraid to share his views for fear they would be misconstrued or met with emotional outbursts.

Employees were claiming Basecamp has a white supremacist culture, an indictment against anybody working there. The idea that you can't reject such preposterous accusations without being "complicit", or without the denial somehow serving as further evidence, is insane.

Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting

#39

Post by tdfx »

throwawayboise wrote: post #6
cratermoon wrote: post #2

“I strongly disagree we live in a white supremacist culture,” [Ryan] Singer said. “I don’t believe in a lot of the framing around implicit bias. I think a lot of this is actually racist.” He continued: “Very often, if you express a dissenting view, you get called a Nazi. … I have not felt this is open territory for discussion. If we were to try to get into it as a group discussion it would be very painful and divisiv…

So if someone disagrees that we live in a white supremacist culture, they should just sit mute and not challenge that claim?

That's the problem with extreme leftist arguments in general. If you don't have the same opinion, or even hold an opinion that falls short of the furthest left possible on the spectrum, you are either bulldozed into submission or, if you refuse to submit, "canceled" as racist or xenophobe. It's incredibly toxic behavior.

Nothing is considered an acceptable response except full submission to one side of the argument. Any alternate response is racist, abandoning the argument is white fragility, and silence is complicity in genocide.

Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting

#40

Post by aphelion »

The most striking thing here has got to be that for some people being told they worked at a company riddled with white supremacy and racism would have been a relief.

I know the stock response is that denying the existence of a problem is worse than admitting it, but if the gravamen of the issue is not whether or not the company is built on the most murderous ideology in history but whether or not the founders will affirm that it is publicly seems an excellent indicator the term 'white supremacy' has been hollowed out and is now just another target in woke language games.

Post reply on HN