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Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#131

Post by coddle-hark »

Nursie wrote: post #123
qw wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mostly about the emotional attachment. If you find two identical pens, and one of them was used by a famous writer, you would expect a price difference. There is no difference in the quality of those pens. They both work the same, and using the writer's pen will not make you a better writer by itself. I personally would not buy a natural diamond because of the ethical issues, but I do understand the students who…

That's a good point, the difference doesn't have to be in the item itself, BUT - Does anyone, other than geologists of course, really care about the back-story of the diamond, how it was created and how it was mined? Or are they just hanging on to an idea that some of them are "real" and some "not real" for the purposes of social signalling? If the latter, I would consider this much more changeable over time.

> Does anyone, other than geologists of course, really care about the back-story of the diamond, how it was created and how it was mined?

Yes, very much so, as is the case with all lifestyle products. People want to believe that they’re buying something special.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#132

Post by Nursie »

bongobingo wrote: post #125
Nursie wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not exactly the same thing though, there's a difference there, you get the physical object. I agree that some people value rarity and uniqueness, but it doesn't look to me like diamonds (natural or otherwise) provide that.

They do. Actual diamonds have occlusions, slight color shifts, unique sparkle patterns, and other characteristics. Grown diamonds are too perfect, and it’s trivially easy to tell the difference. You don’t need a loupe at all. I don’t own any diamonds, but I like rocks and minerals. Hank from breaking bad would be proud.

> Actual diamonds have occlusions, slight color shifts, unique sparkle patterns

All of which can either be recreated in a lab now, or are likely to be possible before long. See for example synthetic star sapphires.

> I like rocks and minerals

Good for you, so does my step-dad (he's a geologist). The man was a nightmare to try and drag around the New York museum of natural history, I thought we'd never get out of the mineral section...

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#133

Post by bitL »

ivanhoe wrote: post #106
simonh wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the best option available to people was diamond mining, by taking that away from them we’re by definition pushing them into an even worse option. That’s a big problem I have with a lot of the do-good commentary on developing world labour. Taking away options from people, even bad ones from our point of view, isn’t necessarily doing them any favours. None of these peoples options are going to look good to us. Actua…

So far these diamonds were both the primary cause of conflicts, as well as the main way of financing and prolonging them. Wars are expensive, so if you take money out of the game many militias/ fractions/ criminals will simply loose interest in those territories, and that should reduce the corruption and make things more stable for people there. In theory, that's way more important for progress than outside help, alt…

Imagine the next war will be financed with NFTs.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#134

Post by jfk13 »

neilwilson wrote: post #50
cyberpunk wrote: post #3

Married members of HN, what did you do if you think diamonds are utterly ridiclious however due to societal constraints some kind of ring is required for your SO?

Always remember the whole diamond ring thing was a marketing putsh by DeBeers in the first place. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/02/ho... So arguably buying a diamond ring has always been a symbol of wage oppression and terrible mining conditions in Africa, and any right thinking person should boycott it. Fortunately my SO isn't that struck by sparkly rocks. She prefers antique jewellery with…

Likewise. My wife now wears my late mother's wedding ring, after we had it remade to fit her. (Resizing was non-trivial, as it is not a simple circle.) It's not hugely valuable, but it has a unique character and history.

(Added twist: the jeweller couldn't have it ready in time for the ceremony, so we made do with a dime-store trinket, and swapped it later.)

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#135

Post by Nursie »

coddle-hark wrote: post #131
Nursie wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point, the difference doesn't have to be in the item itself, BUT - Does anyone, other than geologists of course, really care about the back-story of the diamond, how it was created and how it was mined? Or are they just hanging on to an idea that some of them are "real" and some "not real" for the purposes of social signalling? If the latter, I would consider this much more changeable over time.

> Does anyone, other than geologists of course, really care about the back-story of the diamond, how it was created and how it was mined? Yes, very much so, as is the case with all lifestyle products. People want to believe that they’re buying something special.

Really?

I've never met anyone that talked about it at all. Maybe I don't have conversations about diamonds very often, but people only ever seemed concerned that they were 'real', and latterly that they were conflict-free.

> People want to believe that they’re buying something special.

What if it turns out they're not?

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#136

Post by boomboomsubban »

wccrawford wrote: post #127
dijit wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the best option available to people was diamond mining, by taking that away from them we’re by definition pushing them into an even worse option. If your business is to force people into slavery, then it is part of your business to remove other avenues for them to get out of slavery.

>If your business is to force people into slavery, then it is part of your business to remove other avenues for them to get out of slavery. I suspect your sentence got a little mangled. It sounds like you're saying that businesses should try to prevent people from getting out of slavery by removing other avenues by which they could free themselves. I suspect you mean that they should create those avenues for freedom,…

>It sounds like you're saying that businesses should...

They are saying slavery based businesses should... If you profit off slavery you don't want it to end.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#137

Post by veltas »

joeblau wrote: post #65

Random diamond story! As a freshman in college, I took a geology class and our teacher asked all of the women in our class to raise their hand if they would rather have natural or human-made diamonds. Most of the women (over 80%) raised their hands for natural. The reasons they gave all seemed to tie back to branding and natural diamonds being “real.” Then our teacher gave another analogy. He asked if people would ra…

Diamonds are precious partly because they're rare. If you find a way of 'making' a diamond it loses some of that value. It's interesting to me that someone would even try making a comparison between a precious stone and something like water/ice which is mostly desired for utility and not any sentimental reason.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#138

Post by prawn »

cyberpunk wrote: post #3

Married members of HN, what did you do if you think diamonds are utterly ridiclious however due to societal constraints some kind of ring is required for your SO?

Knew my partner wanted a diamond and of a certain cut. Knew I wasn't excited about spending a fortune on a diamond. So I split the budget midway so half was spent on the diamond/ring and half was spent on a trip to propose overseas somewhere memorable. Ultimately the happiness of your partner is what counts, but this combination made it more palatable for my practical self.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#139

Post by tom_mellior »

joeblau wrote: post #65

Random diamond story! As a freshman in college, I took a geology class and our teacher asked all of the women in our class to raise their hand if they would rather have natural or human-made diamonds. Most of the women (over 80%) raised their hands for natural. The reasons they gave all seemed to tie back to branding and natural diamonds being “real.” Then our teacher gave another analogy. He asked if people would ra…

> our teacher asked all of the women

Sounds like a pretty sexist thing to do. The same question can be asked without putting women on the spot. "If you were to buy a diamond, what would you rather choose?"

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#140

Post by tom_mellior »

simonh wrote: post #71
Nursie wrote: post #35

Good for them. It's literally the same material, and we can now use scientific and engineering advances to remove the need for people to toil and die underground to get them. Hopefully the process is more environmentally friendly too. They are real diamonds. I find it hi-goddamned-larious that the moment these became viable, the industry switched from "Diamond purity is the be-all and end-all and you must have the cl…

If the best option available to people was diamond mining, by taking that away from them we’re by definition pushing them into an even worse option. That’s a big problem I have with a lot of the do-good commentary on developing world labour. Taking away options from people, even bad ones from our point of view, isn’t necessarily doing them any favours. None of these peoples options are going to look good to us. Actua…

> Actually helping these people means improving their existing options, or giving them new better ones.

Yes. A basic income for which one doesn't need to go into the diamond mines, for example.

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