Well I guess they were right in a way. Political stuff did indeed not pan out well for the company
Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting
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Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting
#22Such a great example showing how useless the idea of “banning politics at work” is. If the employee groups’ request to delete the list of “funny” names was political, then creating and updating that list in the first place must also have been political. I guess it’s “politics” only when the founders disagree with it.
DHH agreed to delete it immediately.
The politics was when one Asian employee wouldn’t let the issue die and posted the path to genocide pyramid about how laughing at funny names was just a step on the way to genocide.
Talk about jumping to conclusions.
Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting
#23Were they entirely unprepared for this meeting? "I condemn white supremacy" should not have been difficult words to say. It does not require careful phrasing. Particularly right now, so shortly after famously Trump refused to say it in the debate, and then weeks later we had the attack on the capitol.
Wallace asked President Trump whether he was willing to denounce “white supremacists and militia groups,” and Trump answered, "Sure, I'm willing to do that," Not sure how any sane person can claim that isn't denouncing white supremacy but hey don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.
But why didn’t Trump come out to condemn genocide?
And I haven’t heard Biden condemn pedaphilia either...
/s
Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting
#24The problem with this and ALL arguments comes down to definitions. “I don’t think there is white supremacy....of course there is white supremacy etc.” What I would have done is get them to define what each means by white supremacy in detail...then debate on the detail. The chilling statement at the end was: “white supremacy is silence”. This kind of thing is straight out of the history books. You must say the right t…
> What I would have done is get them to define what each means by white supremacy in detail...then debate on the detail.
As a friendly piece of advice, this approach is going to get you fired from a few companies. If you're in a management position it could well get your company sued.
When someone comes to you and says they were victimised because of racism or sexism it's a good idea to ask them what happened, and what they'd like to do to put it right. You can then decide whether those are reasonable, and whether or not you are going to do anything.
But it's a terrible idea, once you've asked them what happened, to then say "but why is this racism?" and then to argue with them about whether it is or not.
Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting
#25“I strongly disagree we live in a white supremacist culture,” [Ryan] Singer said. “I don’t believe in a lot of the framing around implicit bias. I think a lot of this is actually racist.” He continued: “Very often, if you express a dissenting view, you get called a Nazi. … I have not felt this is open territory for discussion. If we were to try to get into it as a group discussion it would be very painful and divisiv…
> If we were to try to get into it as a group discussion it would be very painful and divisive. This really sounded to me as " if I were allowed to tell you my true feelings about all this, a lot of you would be angry ," or " oh, if it's open-season on white men, let me tell you I can dish it on the rest of you... lucky for you I'm not allowed to ."
“This sounded to me like” is the problem.
Everyone hears what they want to hear for their narrative. Then it becomes a juicy internet drama rather than some mundane thing.
Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting
#26The problem with this and ALL arguments comes down to definitions. “I don’t think there is white supremacy....of course there is white supremacy etc.” What I would have done is get them to define what each means by white supremacy in detail...then debate on the detail. The chilling statement at the end was: “white supremacy is silence”. This kind of thing is straight out of the history books. You must say the right t…
> What I would have done is get them to define what each means by white supremacy in detail...then debate on the detail. As a friendly piece of advice, this approach is going to get you fired from a few companies. If you're in a management position it could well get your company sued. When someone comes to you and says they were victimised because of racism or sexism it's a good idea to ask them what happened, and wh…
I was referring to the part in the article where Singer and the black employee are discussing the existence of white supremacy at the company.
But you make a good point though regarding HR complaints.
Q: what would you say though if an employee presses you on whether you personally think it’s racism?
Then if you don’t address it you are on the hook.
Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting
#27Were they entirely unprepared for this meeting? "I condemn white supremacy" should not have been difficult words to say. It does not require careful phrasing. Particularly right now, so shortly after famously Trump refused to say it in the debate, and then weeks later we had the attack on the capitol.
Wallace asked President Trump whether he was willing to denounce “white supremacists and militia groups,” and Trump answered, "Sure, I'm willing to do that," Not sure how any sane person can claim that isn't denouncing white supremacy but hey don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.
"Sure, I'm willing to do it."
"So do it!"
"Proud boys, stand by."
Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting
#28“I strongly disagree we live in a white supremacist culture,” [Ryan] Singer said. “I don’t believe in a lot of the framing around implicit bias. I think a lot of this is actually racist.” He continued: “Very often, if you express a dissenting view, you get called a Nazi. … I have not felt this is open territory for discussion. If we were to try to get into it as a group discussion it would be very painful and divisiv…
> If we were to try to get into it as a group discussion it would be very painful and divisive. This really sounded to me as " if I were allowed to tell you my true feelings about all this, a lot of you would be angry ," or " oh, if it's open-season on white men, let me tell you I can dish it on the rest of you... lucky for you I'm not allowed to ."
People did get angry at what he did say so there's no need to concoct thoughts in his head.
If the reporting is accurate, his words were twisted. He said "I strongly disagree we live in a white supremacist culture" (meaning American culture) which another employee changes to "white supremacy doesn’t exist."
Based on what was reported, I don't know why Singer was suspended. I do understand why he resigned, given the reaction of many employees. He's not an avowed white supremacist.
Singer is very wrong, he needs more education, but it seems like many of the employees can't handle the idea of working at a place where someone so wrong works. At a large workplace, there was another worker who I saw coming in to work had a large sign on his bag making clear he was a 9/11 Truther. I saw he also sat at lunchtime with his bag prominently displayed (not at the workplace, in public). It made me really angry but I'd never do anything to threaten his employment or avoid all contact.
Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting
#29Were they entirely unprepared for this meeting? "I condemn white supremacy" should not have been difficult words to say. It does not require careful phrasing. Particularly right now, so shortly after famously Trump refused to say it in the debate, and then weeks later we had the attack on the capitol.
Wallace asked President Trump whether he was willing to denounce “white supremacists and militia groups,” and Trump answered, "Sure, I'm willing to do that," Not sure how any sane person can claim that isn't denouncing white supremacy but hey don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.
I'm willing to sacrifice my life for my loved ones. But I haven't.
Not sure how any sane person can claim that saying you're willing to do something and actually doing it aren't different things. He said he was willing to do something but then... never did it.
Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If we were to try to get into it as a group discussion it would be very painful and divisive. This really sounded to me as " if I were allowed to tell you my true feelings about all this, a lot of you would be angry ," or " oh, if it's open-season on white men, let me tell you I can dish it on the rest of you... lucky for you I'm not allowed to ."
“This sounded to me like” is the problem. Everyone hears what they want to hear for their narrative. Then it becomes a juicy internet drama rather than some mundane thing.
"If we were to try to get into it as a group discussion it would be very painful and divisive."
This sounds more like a threat than a promise. A promise he chose to carry out. Why should it be divisive, if you're actually going to listen? Is it because you'd end up saying things like "white supremacy is a myth" and denying the notion of institutional racism?
It sounds a lot to me like the continual "predictions" (threats) from some Republicans that there's going to be a "race war" or other war with liberals, if the left keeps doing what they're doing. They make it sound like it's something inevitable that they're predicting, but in reality they're simply saying what they want to do.