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Lets just drop the 5 from Perl 5

blog.kraih.com

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Re: Lets just drop the 5 from Perl 5

#21

Post by smosher »

msbarnett wrote: post #13
smosher wrote: post #9

That's disingenuous and doesn't clear up anything. Better: Perl 5 Version 16.

I'm having trouble seeing how any change to something as completely arbitrary as version number schemes could be described as "disingenuous". How would the Perl community be attempting to "deceive people via a false impression of honesty" by dropping the long-since-atrophied major version number? What possible point of honesty is served by gluing that 5 to the language in perpetuity, just to continue waiting for Godo…

What people don't realize is that Perl means something. (And it doesn't mean specifically Perl 5.) I'd wager nobody advocating silly name changes (for either 5 or 6) had been writing Perl 10 years ago. In short: it's a marketing lie, and a poor one at that.

For the sake of (spiteful) example I submit Perl 4 should be now known as Perl, and Perl 5 should deal with succession syndrome. Oh but Perl 6 is disruptive and confusing because it's so different you might complain, adding that 5 wasn't so different from 4. You wouldn't have dealt with the frustratingly subtle differences between Perl 4 and Perl 5 then. Or reams of Perl 5 documentation written as Perl 4 code with errata.

Re: Lets just drop the 5 from Perl 5

#22

Post by ojosilva »

And how about Perl 7? Perl 14 would feel like the Java version bump, and people would say "well Perl 5 just dropped the 5" which means nothing in fact. Perl 7 could start enforcing all "use feature" and "strict modernity" out-of-the-box and package things like Moose and sub signatures. And as a side dish, we could do a cleanup of the interpreter code for p5p mental sanity, in a "less is more" fashion.

Actually the odd numbers could become the Perl5 series and its gradual evolution. And the evens, the experimental Perl6 series of taking computer languages where no man has gone before. But that's just pointless... it would be another 20 christmas before Perl 8 would start to materialize.

Besides, Perl 7 is supposed to be "God's rewrite of Perl". So, here's where God comes in and Perl 7 saves us all.

Re: Lets just drop the 5 from Perl 5

#23

Post by cageface »

sciurus wrote: post #6
steipete wrote: post #2

Why? Isn't Perl6 the "new hot" thing? You could rename Perl5 to Pearl Classic. (see Python...)

That's exactly the attitude those proposing name changes want to dispel. "People ask for name changes so they can show the rest of the world just how alive Perl 5 really is."

Good luck with that. In 1999 every programmer I knew used Perl. Now I don't know anybody that hasn't moved on to Ruby or Python.

Re: Lets just drop the 5 from Perl 5

#24

Post by masterzora »

perlgeek wrote: post #17
tete wrote: post #16

I always liked the idea of renaming Perl 6 to Rakudo, being the major/official implementation. It's also what most other programming languages do. A major, leading implementation, as well as others following. This would also make it easier for newcomers.

Rakudo is by no means more official than any other implementation (for example currently niecza is quite strong, see https://github.com/sorear/niecza/ for the code). Renaming Perl 6 to Rakudo makes about as much sense as renaming C to GCC to MSVC. Rakudo, while a nice name, is also too easy to mistype - even core committers (me included) have frequently misspelled its name in commit messages etc.

> Rakudo, while a nice name, is also too easy to mistype - even core committers (me included) have frequently misspelled its name in commit messages etc.

I agree with the principle of this, but you do have to compare this to Pearl.

Re: Lets just drop the 5 from Perl 5

#25

Post by minikomi »

cageface wrote: post #23
sciurus wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly the attitude those proposing name changes want to dispel. "People ask for name changes so they can show the rest of the world just how alive Perl 5 really is."

Good luck with that. In 1999 every programmer I knew used Perl. Now I don't know anybody that hasn't moved on to Ruby or Python.

Oddly enough, despite Ruby's origins, Perl is still very widely used in Japan.

Re: Lets just drop the 5 from Perl 5

#26

Post by zcid »

CurrentB wrote: post #19
agentultra wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think John's post on the modern perl blog is the most rational dissection of this "problem" that is plaguing the perl community. Few people outside the perl community see "Perl 5" and "Perl 6". For most people referring to the language they simply call it "Perl." For marketing to developers specifically, I think the biggest hurdle isn't the name but the stigma attached to the language. Most developers I talk to out…

I agree. Nobody want's to invest time into learning something called "Perl 5" when there's something already out there called "Perl 6". Yes, some research into it will reveal that they are now on two separate dev paths, but there is still some mental stigma associated with investing time in learning an "old version" of something. And learning the "newer version" quickly reveals that it is not widely used/supported ye…

I can attest to this. This was my first insight into the Perl 5/6 issue. Until now, I always assumed it was along the lines of Python 2.x and Python 3.

Re: Lets just drop the 5 from Perl 5

#29

Post by cageface »

minikomi wrote: post #25
cageface wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck with that. In 1999 every programmer I knew used Perl. Now I don't know anybody that hasn't moved on to Ruby or Python.

Oddly enough, despite Ruby's origins, Perl is still very widely used in Japan.

Strange. In what kinds of applications?

Re: Lets just drop the 5 from Perl 5

#30

Post by jacques_chester »

jinushaun wrote: post #4
steipete wrote: post #2

Why? Isn't Perl6 the "new hot" thing? You could rename Perl5 to Pearl Classic. (see Python...)

Because Perl 6 is an incomplete language still in development that, in all honestly, has no chance of ever replacing Perl 5. It's been in development since 2000 and is a spec with no "official" implementation. Perl 6 is so different that it might as well be considered a different language. Hence, "real Perl" is Perl 5 and Perl 6 should be called something else.

If they'd called it "Perl NG", then we wouldn't be talking about Perl 5.16. We'd be talking about Perl 21 vs Perl NG.
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