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Policing the Police: The Apps That Let You Spy on the Cops

theatlantic.com

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Re: Policing the Police: The Apps That Let You Spy on the Cops

#11

Post by jeffool »

Flemlord wrote: post #10

I wonder if apps like this could be used to circumvent the recording consent laws in certain states. Instead of having the phone/app make the recording, it could transmit the video/audio stream to a central server in another state where recording without consent is legal. Plus you wouldn't be at risk of losing your recording if somebody takes your phone.

I sincerely doubt this (though I'm no lawyer.) Generally the rules are written so that it applies to the act of recording. The copy is being made on the phone, then sent.

Re: Policing the Police: The Apps That Let You Spy on the Cops

#12

Post by Joakal »

Xurinos wrote: post #4
ajays wrote: post #3

The article mentions 2 apps, but I'm sure these are not the only ones. It would be nice to know about others too. One note of caution, though: some states are 2-party consent states, which means, both parties have to consent to an audio recording. If you happen to be in one of those states, and the cops find out that you've been recording them, you can be in deep trouble. On the other hand, sometimes just recording t…

Does that apply to activity recorded in a public area?

I read a case that if you look like you're recording everything in general, the people being recorded give permission to be recorded in public space.

I think it was aimed at protecting journalists though.

Re: Policing the Police: The Apps That Let You Spy on the Cops

#13

Post by Joakal »

jellicle wrote: post #9

For full function, the ideal citizen filming app should: -- record audio and video -- upload it on-the-fly (as it is being recorded) automatically -- keep recording when the phone is locked or otherwise off/inaccessible to others, as it may be taken away from you Openwatch meets 1 of those requirements. Still waiting for something that meets all 3...

Also strip personally identifying information for immediate anonymity. A phone serial could be embedded or at least a phone make (mine does phone make. Flickr enjoys this btw). Combine that with who owns the phone serial or used phone make in the area (apparently some phones broadcast such information) and the person can be identified.

Re: Policing the Police: The Apps That Let You Spy on the Cops

#14

Post by romey »

Flemlord wrote: post #10

I wonder if apps like this could be used to circumvent the recording consent laws in certain states. Instead of having the phone/app make the recording, it could transmit the video/audio stream to a central server in another state where recording without consent is legal. Plus you wouldn't be at risk of losing your recording if somebody takes your phone.

I'd be interested to know if having an open phone line while speaking to the police could be defended in court. Consider an app that didn't actually _record_ locally, only streamed to a remote server (in a state where the recording was legal) that recorded the conversation.

Re: Policing the Police: The Apps That Let You Spy on the Cops

#15

Post by biturd »

mikeash wrote: post #5

What is the advantage of using this app as opposed to using the built-in Voice Memos app and then turning off the phone's screen? Both approaches record audio fine, don't show any immediate indication that recording is happening, and at least with Voice Memos, I don't have an app called "Cop Recorder" running if the police decide to get curious.

>What is the advantage of using this app as opposed to using the built-in Voice Memos app and then turning off the phone's scree

I don't believe there is one. I emailed (CopWatch) a few weeks ago and have not heard anything. One of my suggestions was to change the name.

I know of a person in which a novelty iPhone scale app was used as probable cause to search their vehicle. He is a developer who wanted to see how an iPhone app could act as a scale. Our estimations were correct, vibration and position are used to make a very crude estimate.

The mere existence of this app angered the police and allowed them to justify a full vehicle search, yielding nothing.

A name like CopWatch is a red flag, and I would not want to have an app of that name on my phone if recording secrecy was my end goal.

The app does not upload in real time, but rather works like any other built in app, recording locally, uploading at user instruction, plus needing data entry prior to uploading. Given that we have all seen video of officers destroying recording devices, or recording devices returned broken, it is important to protect that function.

This app in curent form offers no protection against corruption in law enforcement.

My best recommendation is to use UStream. It records locally if there is no cellular or wifi connection. If a data connection can be found, it records directly to the remote servers. You can delete the local file, and even the local representation of the remote server file, but the master will be retained when you login to the webapp. You must only protect your login and password to the webapp, and all recordings made while connected through a data connection should be safe for a sufficient period of time.

I should note, the above suggestions are only tested on iOS devices. I have no idea if they hold true on other mobile platforms. The UStream deletion of local files while retaining remote files could also be a bug, albeit one that has been there for over a year now.

Re: Policing the Police: The Apps That Let You Spy on the Cops

#16

Post by lego606 »

jellicle wrote: post #9

For full function, the ideal citizen filming app should: -- record audio and video -- upload it on-the-fly (as it is being recorded) automatically -- keep recording when the phone is locked or otherwise off/inaccessible to others, as it may be taken away from you Openwatch meets 1 of those requirements. Still waiting for something that meets all 3...

Look at the site - he's looking for volunteers to help get that functionality in.

Re: Policing the Police: The Apps That Let You Spy on the Cops

#17

Post by dmbass »

romey wrote: post #14
Flemlord wrote: post #10

I wonder if apps like this could be used to circumvent the recording consent laws in certain states. Instead of having the phone/app make the recording, it could transmit the video/audio stream to a central server in another state where recording without consent is legal. Plus you wouldn't be at risk of losing your recording if somebody takes your phone.

I'd be interested to know if having an open phone line while speaking to the police could be defended in court. Consider an app that didn't actually _record_ locally, only streamed to a remote server (in a state where the recording was legal) that recorded the conversation.

Digitizing an analog stream is probably considered recording.

Re: Policing the Police: The Apps That Let You Spy on the Cops

#19

Post by snprbob86 »

jellicle wrote: post #9

For full function, the ideal citizen filming app should: -- record audio and video -- upload it on-the-fly (as it is being recorded) automatically -- keep recording when the phone is locked or otherwise off/inaccessible to others, as it may be taken away from you Openwatch meets 1 of those requirements. Still waiting for something that meets all 3...

http://qik.com/ does at least the first two. Not sure about the 3rd.

Re: Policing the Police: The Apps That Let You Spy on the Cops

#20

Post by Natsu »

Joakal wrote: post #13
jellicle wrote: post #9

For full function, the ideal citizen filming app should: -- record audio and video -- upload it on-the-fly (as it is being recorded) automatically -- keep recording when the phone is locked or otherwise off/inaccessible to others, as it may be taken away from you Openwatch meets 1 of those requirements. Still waiting for something that meets all 3...

Also strip personally identifying information for immediate anonymity. A phone serial could be embedded or at least a phone make (mine does phone make. Flickr enjoys this btw). Combine that with who owns the phone serial or used phone make in the area (apparently some phones broadcast such information) and the person can be identified.

> Also strip personally identifying information for immediate anonymity.

I question just how anonymous a recording of your interaction with the police can be made. Surely the officers in question will recognize recordings of themselves and have records of just who all they pulled over that day?

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