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Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

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Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#81

Post by bbojan »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #22
rudyfink wrote: post #6

I have no idea if it is true, but, in Egypt, my guide (who I will say was wonderfully knowledgeable on historic matters), stated that the reason many properties had rebar extending upwards (e.g., it looked like there were more stories to be added) was related to tax policy. I forget the full detail of her explanation, but there was some different kind of tax treatment if the building was "finished," so there were a n…

My wife has mentioned this is common in Serbia as well. The idea was that you might actually extend the building upwards eventually, but... Not sure if it happens as often as the initial practice is done.

I believe it has (had) more to do with unavailability of financing. So you save enough money to build the ground floor, the leave it unfinished until you have enough money to build the upper floor, the wait again until you have enough to clad it, etc.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#82

Post by rossvor »

ReptileMan wrote: post #58
herodoturtle wrote: post #33

> What is going on? Start with the lack of finance. Many Senegalese developers struggle to obtain loans without hefty collateral. Instead, some start building, hoping to tempt buyers to put down deposits on flats and then use that to help finance the rest of the building. But buyers are wary of making a commitment based on a construction site. These unfinished projects often tie up prime land, too. > For Senegalese h…

Well my experience as a person living in Eastern Europe is that EU funds are just very expensive roundabout subsidy for German car manufacturers - since everybody steals bulk of the money and buys expensive cars. So injecting capital is almost guaranteed to not work.

And yet in terms of economic development countries which joined EU are doing quite markedly better than those that didn't. Obviously, there's some selection bias -- only those who sort of had their shit together were allowed to join. And also just plain market access would have account for some of that. But still, as a person who grew up in EE in the 90s, I feel like people are very quick to forget how bad it really was, and how quickly -- within a generation -- things drastically improved, and how unusual that is.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#83

Post by ralfn »

trymas wrote: post #56
daniel_iversen wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same in Greece (tax rules) apparently, and there you’ll also see lots and lots of unfinished buildings.

But how people can live in such buildings then? I understand about poorer countries with lack of regulations, but have not thought that's possible in Europe. Government should not allow anyone to live or operate in such buildings if they're not up to code and are not finished. How people can get mortgages for such things, or how business can register their offices if building is permanently "under construction"?

I've only been a tourist in Greece, so definitely not an expert, but....

Take your house. Now add some scaffolding for a new floor on top of it. Does it alter the ability or even quality of living in it?

It might also help hide the pool, which is also taxed.

"Up to code" isn't the same as a safe house. That's just such an american way of looking at issues. All that does is make the legal liability clear. It doesn't make anything safer or nicer.

It's like arguing that a 'stop sign' makes an intersection safer. It doesn't. Real proper pedestrian and cycling infrastructure does. Traffic calming. A stop sign just tells you who gets bankrupted when another person is killed yet again.

Your asking the question 'if it's unclear who can be sued how can people be safe' but these things are completely unrelated. As any statistic would tell you.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#84

Post by BlueTemplar »

ReptileMan wrote: post #58
herodoturtle wrote: post #33

> What is going on? Start with the lack of finance. Many Senegalese developers struggle to obtain loans without hefty collateral. Instead, some start building, hoping to tempt buyers to put down deposits on flats and then use that to help finance the rest of the building. But buyers are wary of making a commitment based on a construction site. These unfinished projects often tie up prime land, too. > For Senegalese h…

Well my experience as a person living in Eastern Europe is that EU funds are just very expensive roundabout subsidy for German car manufacturers - since everybody steals bulk of the money and buys expensive cars. So injecting capital is almost guaranteed to not work.

Money isn't capital and this issue can be helped by giving not money but coupons that can only be used for construction.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#85

Post by PicassoCTs »

bluecalm wrote: post #53
Gibbon1 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years ago I read the same about places in the US as well. And of assessors being really intrusive. People being butthurt because they feel they are being punished for keeping their house up. I've heard California used to base assessments on comparative values so that people don't try and game the system with crummy substandard construction and materials.

Well it's natural that people feel it's unfair to tax them more just because they make their house nicer. It's just a very unfair tax. Think about it. You spend money and work a lot of hours to refurbish your kitchen and then you're informed you have to pay more because of it. I am surprised people don't rebel against this policy.

They do and they did. But there taxes are used to buy bullys and guns and put that rebellion down.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#86

Post by veddox »

Causality1 wrote: post #25

I've heard quite extraordinary stories related to the "grabby kin" problem. Entirely hearsay, but at the same time too common. Most of them keep to a similar theme, that is a combination of entitlement to resources held by your relatives and a lack of emphasis on long-term gains. Probably half of these stories involve someone just getting a small business off the ground and losing it because relatives think they're e…

Having lived in southern Africa for 14 years, I can confirm that this is tragically common.

One big problem is that modern capitalism is intensely individualistic, as is Western culture in general. African culture, on the other hand, is completely community-focussed. The individual does not exist apart from the community (family/village), therefore there is no concept of "private property".

This makes for a lot of frustration in intercultural interactions between Westerners and Africans. It's also the reason why almost all successful local development projects target the entire community, not individuals.

(This is not to judge one culture or the other! Just to point out that an economic system developed in one culture cannot be expected to work without problems in a very different culture.)

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#87

Post by veddox »

LatteLazy wrote: post #74

There are so many cultural and social norms that make business in the west easier and faster and more reliable. And they're basically invisible until you work somewhere else and have yo get something done.

The reasons for this are complex, but in a word: yes.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#88

Post by oblio »

robotomir wrote: post #78
MomoXenosaga wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is very diverse. From "what are we going to do with all this oil money" Norway to "there are shacks with people in them" Bulgaria.

>"there are shacks with people in them" Bulgaria. The what now?

I'm guessing he means https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wattle_and_daub or chipboard houses. Super cheap construction (wattle and daub being older houses, usually 100+ year old houses built by very poor people; chipboard being used for sheds and even some rooms, but generally with some extra insulation layers and obviously painted/protected against humidity).

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#89

Post by danielam »

rudyfink wrote: post #6

I have no idea if it is true, but, in Egypt, my guide (who I will say was wonderfully knowledgeable on historic matters), stated that the reason many properties had rebar extending upwards (e.g., it looked like there were more stories to be added) was related to tax policy. I forget the full detail of her explanation, but there was some different kind of tax treatment if the building was "finished," so there were a n…

I was told by a Bajan that something similar holds in Barbados, viz., the reason you see so many unpainted houses in Barbados is because it classifies them as unfinished for tax purposes. However, I read somewhere that the tax deduction is actually quite small, so take that for what it’s worth.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#90

Post by oblio »

trymas wrote: post #56
daniel_iversen wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same in Greece (tax rules) apparently, and there you’ll also see lots and lots of unfinished buildings.

But how people can live in such buildings then? I understand about poorer countries with lack of regulations, but have not thought that's possible in Europe. Government should not allow anyone to live or operate in such buildings if they're not up to code and are not finished. How people can get mortgages for such things, or how business can register their offices if building is permanently "under construction"?

People often don't get mortgages for such things, they're frequently working illegally or working legally for minimum wage and being paid cash the rest. Businesses can definitely do the same. If anything, these buildings are frequently built up slowly over years or decades, on paper being built by friends and family, so there's no need for a pesky bank loan to build the thing, just finance it from savings.

And regarding lack of regulations, I can assure you that about 50% of Europe isn't too keen on regulation, either.

Plus, few people are that stupid. This isn't actually dangerous. They generally leave some "decorative" rebar sticking out somewhere over 2m or so in the air, or on the actual roof of the building. Nobody can really get hurt, not more than you'd bump into the chimney :-)

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