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How I Became a Libertarian

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Re: How I Became a Libertarian

#21

Post by smitty1e »

listless wrote: post #13
recursivedoubts wrote: post #6

libertarianism is an interesting & coherent political philosophy, but I notice that it keeps losing my understanding is that, from a political perspective, the idea is to win

This is an excellent point. And I _think_ that the answer is that government is inherently about control. Both sides seek to gain power and then use it to control and manipulate people into behaving a certain way. Politics itself is essentially at odds with libertarianism.

Perhaps libertarianism itself and alone is less than sufficient as a political system.

Re: How I Became a Libertarian

#22

Post by ObserverNeutral »

woleium wrote: post #18
ObserverNeutral wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. I mean those who bet on proper lines and on financial markets that Republicans will win after 8 years of Democrats and vice versa Also those who automatically assume the political leaning of the person they are interacting with. If I am with a hot college girl who is a Bernie supporter, you bet I'd be strongly and passionately arguing for the redistribution of wealth and a 95% income tax because that crea…

At the risk of sounding rude, that all seems kind of sociopathic?

How so? You are telling people what they want to hear, you make them relaxed and chill.

Re: How I Became a Libertarian

#23

Post by TheColorYellow »

bm3719 wrote: post #17
avereveard wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you get some basic services back, like roads. Imagine the mess that are ISP peering agreements but for private transit. Jesus this community truly lives in a bubble.

Hello, neighbor. I dropped off a bag of groceries for you (food being essential for life). That'll be $500, by the way. If for some reason you refuse to pay for these basic services, I will then be forced to destroy your livelihood and possibly imprison you.

Your neighbor is not the government and has no qualities of what a government has.

Taxation is a necessary form of funding to the entities that are responsible for managing negative externalities.The fact that they have a monopoly on violence is also a boon to society.

Taxation and the state as the primary power are fundamental components to the modern social contract. The onus is on naysayers to rovide proof that a system that lacks these components is better.

Re: How I Became a Libertarian

#24

Post by Ancapistani »

TheColorYellow wrote: post #23
bm3719 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello, neighbor. I dropped off a bag of groceries for you (food being essential for life). That'll be $500, by the way. If for some reason you refuse to pay for these basic services, I will then be forced to destroy your livelihood and possibly imprison you.

Your neighbor is not the government and has no qualities of what a government has. Taxation is a necessary form of funding to the entities that are responsible for managing negative externalities.The fact that they have a monopoly on violence is also a boon to society. Taxation and the state as the primary power are fundamental components to the modern social contract. The onus is on naysayers to rovide proof that a…

> The onus is on naysayers to rovide proof that a system that lacks these components is better.

This is true only if they are arguing another system is better.

I would argue that our current system - including taxation - is immoral. Whether or not it’s “better” by whatever standard you choose to apply has no bearing on that argument.

This is the difference between the deontological and utilitarian perspectives.

Re: How I Became a Libertarian

#25

Post by sigmaprimus »

ObserverNeutral wrote: post #22
woleium wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of sounding rude, that all seems kind of sociopathic?

How so? You are telling people what they want to hear, you make them relaxed and chill.

I kind of get what You are trying to say but it is dishonest, deceitful and generally antisocial behavior to pretend that you believe in something that You really don't just to get what You want from others.

That is also a trait of most Sociapaths, Politicians, Date Rapists and Internet Trolls.

Re: How I Became a Libertarian

#27

Post by collective-intl »

jordank wrote: post #4

Are there any examples of current or past successful libertarian governments?

The USA was founded on the idea of limited government. It was very successful!

Government only gets bigger over time. Even early 20th century America had a tiny fraction of our budget and regulations today.

Re: How I Became a Libertarian

#28

Post by smitty1e »

collective-intl wrote: post #26
smitty1e wrote: post #20

This is a thoughtful, well-written piece. It would be helpful to see solid counter-arguments instead of flagging.

How can we stop all the flag killing on HN? It's 90% censorship.

Much of the time, the flagging filters obvious advertising and flamebait.

It's the tendency to flag ideas that challenge the orthodoxy that raises ire.

Re: How I Became a Libertarian

#29

Post by taylodl »

I stopped reading when I saw their definition of socialism - if they couldn't be bothered to research to ensure they got that correct then why spend time with anything else they have to say? Straw-man arguments may be fun, but they're not constructive.

Re: How I Became a Libertarian

#30

Post by orwin »

dennis_jeeves wrote: post #19
bm3719 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello, neighbor. I dropped off a bag of groceries for you (food being essential for life). That'll be $500, by the way. If for some reason you refuse to pay for these basic services, I will then be forced to destroy your livelihood and possibly imprison you.

lol, that exactly how taxation works. You are forced to pay something which you did not ask for. Ofcourse the pro-taxation crowd simply does does not understand this - they argue that you did indeed make use of the bag of groceries. Huh? chicken-and-egg really....

I'd rather have police than private militia, but I'm not living in the us so I understand if you rather have the former.

And if you did, i and a bunch of other would pool our money together to order hits on strike breakers. World would be fun again until ww3

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