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My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

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Re: My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

#31

Post by floatingatoll »

Men, if you want to know how to help prevent this kind of nonsense, pro tip:

> he went on to say that Dick is a bully, and he’s personally wanted to punch Dick for years

This executive leader tolerated Dick for years, and then instead of getting Dick fired for gross and inappropriate touching, he celebrated a harassed woman on having to physically defend her person inside the workplace.

So, men, your mission, should you choose to accept it: Stop tolerating bad men in your professional and personal lives. Call them out. Report them to HR. Tell them their behavior makes you uncomfortable. Stop hanging out with them. Accept the penalty to networking and move on to better people.

Otherwise you’re just the enabler that makes it possible for bad men to hurt others without consequences.

(Obviously, don’t tolerate bad women either, but from a statistical standpoint, focusing on the men-enabling-men problem will have the widest societal impact for women.)

Re: My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

#32

Post by steve_g »

etripe wrote: post #27
slickdork wrote: post #8

Thoughts from tale 1: - I would have guessed that the person who greeted me, showed me where to sit, and asked if I needed anything before leaving was a receptionist regardless of gender. That seems like an unfair strike/test. - I'm always surprised by how stupid people are. Being nice to the receptionist isn't just good standard human behavior, but it's also obvious that a receptionist will have input on the hiring…

I'm disappointed the best she could do summing up her 20-year experience as a woman in tech is high baseline agression, cynicism, two examples of violence on her part, one genuinely off-colour remark and one piece of unacceptable behaviour by a colleague. I would have preferred to see some analysis of how she has had to and did adjust to the way men think, some tips for colleagues welcoming women, something she appre…

Punching a bully in the chest seems like agency to me. I liked the way that worked out.

Re: My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

#33

Post by PicassoCTs »

etripe wrote: post #27
slickdork wrote: post #8

Thoughts from tale 1: - I would have guessed that the person who greeted me, showed me where to sit, and asked if I needed anything before leaving was a receptionist regardless of gender. That seems like an unfair strike/test. - I'm always surprised by how stupid people are. Being nice to the receptionist isn't just good standard human behavior, but it's also obvious that a receptionist will have input on the hiring…

I'm disappointed the best she could do summing up her 20-year experience as a woman in tech is high baseline agression, cynicism, two examples of violence on her part, one genuinely off-colour remark and one piece of unacceptable behaviour by a colleague. I would have preferred to see some analysis of how she has had to and did adjust to the way men think, some tips for colleagues welcoming women, something she appre…

That punch, that was tech-bro language. Good on her. And it worked.

Re: My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

#34

Post by PicassoCTs »

floatingatoll wrote: post #31

Men, if you want to know how to help prevent this kind of nonsense, pro tip: > he went on to say that Dick is a bully, and he’s personally wanted to punch Dick for years This executive leader tolerated Dick for years, and then instead of getting Dick fired for gross and inappropriate touching, he celebrated a harassed woman on having to physically defend her person inside the workplace. So, men, your mission, should…

But those aholes are sooo useful.

A company has a interior and a endoplasmatic reticulum, and while the interior can be a nice place, the parts closer to the skin get continuously more ahole. Which makes it a intersting question if Dick was a ahole to everyone equally.

Some people in there have to be the mean guys, stopping cash from hemorrhaging outwards, be the grave digger for eternal projects, who everybody wants to "save" since the founding of the company. Being a Machiavellian brute when it comes to negotiation, with other Machiavellian brutes.

A company is like a spaceship in a hostile environment, and you need ass-tronauts to climb out and weld the holes shut, that the universe punches into it. And if you life dangerously, you will want to "measure" up with all other guys, who of course claim "to life dangerously too", but might run on first sign of trouble. Dick might actually regard her much higher for hitting him, than a lot of his colleagues. Very neanderthal, but that is how it is.

And then there are sexist aholes, who should be beaten to death with a baseball bat. Like that Thuna guy. Makes me ashamed to be part of the species. Seriously, should be fired, with a public declaration of why, so he never will ever be hired by anyone again.

Re: My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

#35

Post by dasil003 »

etripe wrote: post #27
slickdork wrote: post #8

Thoughts from tale 1: - I would have guessed that the person who greeted me, showed me where to sit, and asked if I needed anything before leaving was a receptionist regardless of gender. That seems like an unfair strike/test. - I'm always surprised by how stupid people are. Being nice to the receptionist isn't just good standard human behavior, but it's also obvious that a receptionist will have input on the hiring…

I'm disappointed the best she could do summing up her 20-year experience as a woman in tech is high baseline agression, cynicism, two examples of violence on her part, one genuinely off-colour remark and one piece of unacceptable behaviour by a colleague. I would have preferred to see some analysis of how she has had to and did adjust to the way men think, some tips for colleagues welcoming women, something she appre…

You really might want to reflect on your own biases as your last paragraph is entirely your editorial and is not present in the article at all. To the contrary she had mutual respect with her team, and was found to be justified in punching someone by higher ups, which would definitely not be the case if she was the one with an unreasonable chip on her shoulder.

Also, your suggestion about presenting analysis of "the way men think" would be an absolute minefield, not to mention inherently reductive and problematic. The insidious thing about experiencing prejudice is that it can be very difficult for a reasonable person to be sure whether it's real or whether it's in their head—by being very specific and factual she gives us more to chew on.

Re: My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

#36

Post by rasputnik6502 »

PicassoCTs wrote: post #34
floatingatoll wrote: post #31

Men, if you want to know how to help prevent this kind of nonsense, pro tip: > he went on to say that Dick is a bully, and he’s personally wanted to punch Dick for years This executive leader tolerated Dick for years, and then instead of getting Dick fired for gross and inappropriate touching, he celebrated a harassed woman on having to physically defend her person inside the workplace. So, men, your mission, should…

But those a holes are sooo useful. A company has a interior and a endoplasmatic reticulum, and while the interior can be a nice place, the parts closer to the skin get continuously more a hole. Which makes it a intersting question if Dick was a a hole to everyone equally. Some people in there have to be the mean guys, stopping cash from hemorrhaging outwards, be the grave digger for eternal projects, who everybody wa…

Too little we know about Dick. Apart from the fact that he touched the hair of his coworker and made some personal remarks. Then when the woman asked him to stop he couldn't, he couldn't just apologize and stop because this would mean he did something wrong. So he did it again pretending it's just a fun joke.

I dont know, i'm not a woman. I dont even know how to handle some strange situations at work. But what Dick did reminds me of kids behavior -they do something annoying, for example kick the chair, and when asked to stop they will pretend they dont understand, kick one or two more times and laugh - just to check if the situation can be transformed into harmless/no consequence and they can get out without having to admit wrongdoing.

Sometimes it's a sociopath targeting a victim while pretending it's a harmless friendly joke, but quite often its just a big child..

Re: My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

#37

Post by wjertyj »

rasputnik6502 wrote: post #18
hodgesrm wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to keep things fact based and be very specific about the behavior you want corrected. I would get things in writing as well so that you have email to back you up in case things go south. The situation you are describing is, unfortunately, not a male/female issue. It is a pattern for a certain type of low performer. p.s., You might think about why you use the word "girl" as opposed to "woman" BTW. That'…

Probably because of age difference, she's much younger than me. And also because of the way she behaves - i perceive it as a bit childish/immature But yes, i'm afraid i might be wrongly accused and would have a hard time defending myself, and this also affects the rest of the team (as i dont think they're blind - they see and feel what's going on - but on the other side i'd rather not talk about this with anyone else…

> Probably because of age difference, she's much younger than me. And also because of the way she behaves - i perceive it as a bit childish/immature

Dude. No.

Re: My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

#38

Post by mc32 »

slickdork wrote: post #8

Thoughts from tale 1: - I would have guessed that the person who greeted me, showed me where to sit, and asked if I needed anything before leaving was a receptionist regardless of gender. That seems like an unfair strike/test. - I'm always surprised by how stupid people are. Being nice to the receptionist isn't just good standard human behavior, but it's also obvious that a receptionist will have input on the hiring…

The author has legit gripes but the one about the greeter is just playing gotcha and it’s immature not of the woman as much as the org.

A more professional organization will send the candidate a schedule with the people they’ll speak with and their titles to avoid stupid guessing games.

If you aren't provided with a schedule, ask for one.

Re: My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

#39

Post by mc32 »

alisonkisk wrote: post #23
slickdork wrote: post #8

Thoughts from tale 1: - I would have guessed that the person who greeted me, showed me where to sit, and asked if I needed anything before leaving was a receptionist regardless of gender. That seems like an unfair strike/test. - I'm always surprised by how stupid people are. Being nice to the receptionist isn't just good standard human behavior, but it's also obvious that a receptionist will have input on the hiring…

> it's also obvious that a receptionist will have input on the hiring process. That's a stretch.

The greeter/receptionist in the lobby can be a source of information for both parties.

But, as always, once to step into an office treat it like the police. Anything you say or do is taken note of and observed. If you have two equally qualified candidates (from either POV) most will opt for the more favorable one.

Re: My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

#40

Post by mc32 »

altano wrote: post #30
slickdork wrote: post #8

Thoughts from tale 1: - I would have guessed that the person who greeted me, showed me where to sit, and asked if I needed anything before leaving was a receptionist regardless of gender. That seems like an unfair strike/test. - I'm always surprised by how stupid people are. Being nice to the receptionist isn't just good standard human behavior, but it's also obvious that a receptionist will have input on the hiring…

> I would have guessed that the person who greeted me, showed me where to sit, and asked if I needed anything before leaving was a receptionist regardless of gender. That seems like an unfair strike/test. I had the exact same thought and then immediately realized it was bullshit. If it was a man I think I would question their role and I think that’s true of most people. It’s hard to say after the fact. Some people do…

It doesn’t matter. Orgs should not play stupid games with candidates like this. Might as well have someone pretend they are having a seizure and see how they react and base hiring on their reaction.
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