AirTag Teardown Part One: Yeah, This Tracks • Hacker News Board

Re: AirTag Teardown Part One: Yeah, This Tracks

#131

Post by ylk » Sun, May 02, 2021, 7:35 PM UTC

GeorgeTirebiter wrote: post #125

mirths wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The AirTag transmits every 2 seconds. The iPhone should scan every 2 minutes for 2 seconds in order to capture the AirTag. BLE scanning costs about ~20mW. So the average power consumption is 20mW * (2sec / 120sec) = 0.3mW. Over an entire day, it's 7mWh. The iPhone 12 battery is 10000mWh. Conclusion: it's neglibile.

It's the principle: other people's tags get to commandeer resources from 'my phone' without me giving permission. Unless somewhere in the iPhone fine print it say something like "by using an iPhone, you are implicitly agreeing to become part of Apple's Global BLE Network" --- well, if not that, I'm not sure how Apple gets away with this.

> Any iOS, iPadOS or macOS device with “offline finding” enabled in Find My settings can act as a “finder device”.

https://support.apple.com/en-nz/guide/security/sec6cbc80fd0/...

Open the Settings app and search for "Find My". You'll find the setting. Or follow this: Settings->Apple ID->Find My->Find My iPhone->Find My network

There's some explanation as to what it does and you'll be able to opt out if you don't like it. (Though you won't even see the "Find My network" setting if you had "Find My" disabled anyway)

Re: AirTag Teardown Part One: Yeah, This Tracks

#132

Post by Andrew_nenakhov » Sun, May 02, 2021, 7:37 PM UTC

mirths wrote: post #40

threepio wrote: post #25

What are the practical ramifications of Apple harnessing every existing iPhone as an AirTag discovery device in the Find My network? (I think it's awful from a privacy and device-ownership standpoint, but let's leave that aside.) For instance, because physics is real, it must take some amount of battery power & data transfer to collect information about nearby AirTags. Suppose I walk into Disneyland on a summer weeke…

The AirTag transmits every 2 seconds. The iPhone should scan every 2 minutes for 2 seconds in order to capture the AirTag. BLE scanning costs about ~20mW. So the average power consumption is 20mW * (2sec / 120sec) = 0.3mW. Over an entire day, it's 7mWh. The iPhone 12 battery is 10000mWh. Conclusion: it's neglibile.

Reporting this data home also costs power.

It's rather pathetic how Apple restricts user's right to use full capabilities of their devices (like restricting running apps in the background) to 'increase their battery life' while simultaneously be perfectly fine to use that power for their own benefit.

I wonder can a user disable this airtag reporting feature if he doesn't own a single airtag and doesn't want to participate in this surveillance network?

Re: AirTag Teardown Part One: Yeah, This Tracks

#133

Post by laurent92 » Sun, May 02, 2021, 7:40 PM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #127

fencepost wrote: post #80

I wouldn't want to use their hack for drilling a hole - not because of the risk or loss of water resistance but because the edge of the hole isn't going to have great structural strength and will likely crack and let the keyring out. You'd also probably want to get some small split rings to use with that hole, then connect one of those to anything else.

It was only a 1/8" hole, you can't line it with much and still fit a keyring through. Unfortunately the most obvious use case of attaching it directly to your keychain so you don't lose your keys probably won't work because in your pocket the keyring itself will act like a lever against the hole and tear the case to shreds. You really do need the overpriced accessory for that use case.

To attach an AirTag (or my micro Yubikey) to a keyring, you generally just use a string. It’s flexible, strong, very thin and it’s a good link to any keyring. With Yubikey the lanyard is $1.

Anyway, I was wondering whether another fun idea would have been to drill the hole in the absolute center of the Airtag, and create a new market for batteries with a hole in the middle.

Re: AirTag Teardown Part One: Yeah, This Tracks

#134

Post by grishka » Sun, May 02, 2021, 7:41 PM UTC

yumraj wrote: post #123

caturopath wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like the choice is "thick and doesn't need a case or thin and needs a case". Even if the phone was thicker, people would be using cases if they bought it, right?

> Even if the phone was thicker, people would be using cases if they bought it, right? People started using cases for most part after the iPhone came out. Older phones were almost never used with a case, except perhaps for use case requiring a ruggedized enclosure.

I remember some people, especially elderly, putting their (dumb) phones into those protective plastic cases. The kind where you'd push the buttons through the plastic. That was looong before the iPhone came out and when something was considered a smartphone if it ran Symbian.

Re: AirTag Teardown Part One: Yeah, This Tracks

#135

Post by mirths » Sun, May 02, 2021, 7:42 PM UTC

GeorgeTirebiter wrote: post #125

mirths wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The AirTag transmits every 2 seconds. The iPhone should scan every 2 minutes for 2 seconds in order to capture the AirTag. BLE scanning costs about ~20mW. So the average power consumption is 20mW * (2sec / 120sec) = 0.3mW. Over an entire day, it's 7mWh. The iPhone 12 battery is 10000mWh. Conclusion: it's neglibile.

It's the principle: other people's tags get to commandeer resources from 'my phone' without me giving permission. Unless somewhere in the iPhone fine print it say something like "by using an iPhone, you are implicitly agreeing to become part of Apple's Global BLE Network" --- well, if not that, I'm not sure how Apple gets away with this.

There is a permission in iPhone settings: participate in "find my" network. You can turn it off.

Re: AirTag Teardown Part One: Yeah, This Tracks

#136

Post by jjeaff » Sun, May 02, 2021, 7:49 PM UTC

perryizgr8 wrote: post #43

selykg wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not everyone. But for me, after spending $1400 I’m putting it in a case. My Xs Max is nearly two and a half years old now and I took it out of the case for it’s scheduled cleaning and after wiping it down and getting the built up pocket crud out of the crevices where the case and phone meet, its like brand new. I’m hoping I can get at least another year out of this thing. Battery is excellent. iOS doesn’t se…

The reason for putting it in a case is not the price tag. People buy 100k cars and don't cover the outer surfaces with protective plastic. The problem is Apple builds the phone in a fragile manner, prone to breaking and scratching. It's true of other phones too.

You don't hold a car in your hand and stare at it all day. But also, cars are mostly painted with a clear coat that can be buffed or sanded and buffed to remove imperfections.

Re: AirTag Teardown Part One: Yeah, This Tracks

#137

Post by theonemind » Sun, May 02, 2021, 7:50 PM UTC

GeorgeTirebiter wrote: post #128

Do people actually need to use these things? Maybe I'm weird, but when young, I had drilled into me Benjamin Franklin's "A place for Everything, and Everything in its Place". If I can't remember where I put something, then I suspect Bigger (medical) Problems are on the horizon... (!)

No one needs them. I have no idea why Apple made them.

Re: AirTag Teardown Part One: Yeah, This Tracks

#138

Post by atorodius » Sun, May 02, 2021, 7:59 PM UTC

theonemind wrote: post #137

GeorgeTirebiter wrote: post #128

Do people actually need to use these things? Maybe I'm weird, but when young, I had drilled into me Benjamin Franklin's "A place for Everything, and Everything in its Place". If I can't remember where I put something, then I suspect Bigger (medical) Problems are on the horizon... (!)

No one needs them. I have no idea why Apple made them.

I bought one for my key, and am very happy.

Re: AirTag Teardown Part One: Yeah, This Tracks

#139

Post by WrtCdEvrydy » Sun, May 02, 2021, 8:02 PM UTC

thatguy0900 wrote: post #114

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like those phones and never had one (either CAT or third party) fail... the issue is that the processor / RAM setup is always a little on the weak side and OS updates are a problem. I'd probably buy my first ever iPhone if Apple came out with a ruggedized version of the current iPhone SE.

Yeah, the os updates is why I've been holding off. Basically just have to accept you won't get any

I mean, to be honest, I didn't pay a lot of my original one (non-CAT) but it's on Android 8.0.1 forever... which isn't exactly a bad version.

I wish Android would decouple the device drivers from the kernel space kinda like a desktop OS so your manufacturer could just supply their drivers and you could upgrade the OS at will... a man can dream.

Re: AirTag Teardown Part One: Yeah, This Tracks

#140

Post by jjeaff » Sun, May 02, 2021, 8:04 PM UTC

FDSGSG wrote: post #97

noelherrick wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe you're serious. Since the iPhone X, a screen replacement has been such a significant percentage of the cost it's not worth it. And if you damage the back glass, Apple will just replace the phone. Before the X, I was a bare phone user. After that, there is no way I would leave my phone exposed. The only way I could justify that danger would be if I could swallow a $1500 expense every other week. Why? F…

Why don't you just get applecare plus? Getting a case has never even crossed my mind, I can just go replace my phone for free whenever I want.

What are you talking about? It's not free, there is a deductible. And it's not anytime you want. It's a maximum of 2 incidences per year. So you pay $200 a year plus $30 for cracking your screen. Or $150 for loss or theft.

I'm guessing you could get a third party screen repair for less than $230.