Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Packages for Amazon (2018)

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 292 posts

Re: I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Packages for Amazon (2018)

#111

Post by ergot_vacation »

seibelj wrote: post #12

> Lurching west in stop-and-go traffic on I-80 that morning, bound for Berkeley and a day of delivering in the rain, I had a low moment, dwelling on how far I’d come down in the world. Then I snapped out of it. I haven’t come down in the world. What’s come down in the world is the business model that sustained Time Inc. for decades. I’m pretty much the same writer, the same guy. I haven’t gone anywhere. My feet are t…

Amazon treats their workers like shit. Nearly all low-wage (and yes, Amazon is still "low-wage" given the work involved) employers do. In Amazon's case they then hire armies of corporate apologists to swarm social media and astroturf any time anyone tries to talk about the shitty way workers are treated. All of this is well established fact at this point.

I'm glad the author is doing well. But these are not good jobs. They are not stable, sustainable, safe or high paid enough. A person could have, presumably, led a pretty good life as a writer for a national magazine like SI. It would not destroy them physically. It would probably not destroy them mentally. They would not be forced to carefully regiment their bathroom breaks, or pee in bottles. They would not be forced to work in stifling hot warehouses. They would not be forced to compete with robots and automated processes and suffer when they inevitably failed to be as fast. Writing for SI is (was) a job. Working for Amazon is exploitation. If you can't see the difference, you either haven't taken the time to read about what Amazon jobs are like, or you're arguing in bad faith, possibly because Amazon is paying you to do so.

Re: I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Packages for Amazon (2018)

#112

Post by dominotw »

skystarman wrote: post #109
cbozeman wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My news this week is full of stories of employers who cannot find enough labor. Yeah, they can't find enough labor because they want to pay people $15 an hour in an area where the median home price is $572,000. I work in logistics. I occasionally overhear some of executive staff down the hall from my office complain about being unable to keep workers in a non-climate controlled warehouse, lifting enormously heavy t…

And I would bet you a week's pay the "job creators" who are complaining they can't find people willing to work for peanuts doing backbreaking miserable labor are the first to claim "we're full, no more immigrants!" to the US when there are plenty of folks in neighboring countries willing to work these jobs and pay taxes...

> are the first to claim "we're full, no more immigrants!"

You are wrong. businesses are primary drivers of illegal immigration into the country they want more immigrants not less.

Re: I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Packages for Amazon (2018)

#113

Post by xyzzyz »

nborwankar wrote: post #65
barry-cotter wrote: post #2

> It’s been healthy for me, a fair-haired Anglo-Saxon with a Roman numeral in my name (John Austin Murphy III) This is what assimilation looks like. Someone with an Irish name calling themselves Anglo-Saxon. It’s like a Hispanic person calling themselves Latinx, proof that they have lost all organic connection to the culture of their ancestors.

This is so on-brand for HN - the article is about a writer now working as a delivery driver which is a juicy topic in itself, but most of the discussion is down the rabbit hole on an entirely tangential matter.

If it is so tangential, why did the author of the piece insist to mention it, and the editor decided to keep it? Looks to me like they wanted to start a conversation, and you are making the environment here not inclusive by shutting down unrepresented voices.

Re: I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Packages for Amazon (2018)

#114

Post by skystarman »

dominotw wrote: post #112
skystarman wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I would bet you a week's pay the "job creators" who are complaining they can't find people willing to work for peanuts doing backbreaking miserable labor are the first to claim "we're full, no more immigrants!" to the US when there are plenty of folks in neighboring countries willing to work these jobs and pay taxes...

> are the first to claim "we're full, no more immigrants!" You are wrong. businesses are primary drivers of illegal immigration into the country they want more immigrants not less.

They want more immigrants, and yet they support Republicans which massively slashed legal immigration the last time they controlled the government?

Re: I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Packages for Amazon (2018)

#115

Post by dominotw »

skystarman wrote: post #114
dominotw wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> are the first to claim "we're full, no more immigrants!" You are wrong. businesses are primary drivers of illegal immigration into the country they want more immigrants not less.

They want more immigrants, and yet they support Republicans which massively slashed legal immigration the last time they controlled the government?

The type of jobs GP is referring to are dependent on illegal immigrants which was not reduced under last admin.

Re: I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Packages for Amazon (2018)

#116

Post by throwaway894345 »

ksm1717 wrote: post #99
throwaway894345 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Plainly stating the classic implication that shitty jobs are actually humbling learning experiences when white I'm familiar with the implication that hard work can be a humbling and rewarding experience, but I'm not aware of any such "when white" qualifiers. FWIW, I grew up on a farm and did a bit of construction before embarking on a career as a software engineer, and I can absolutely affirm that hard, physical wo…

Fair point - switch white for upper middle class, my bad. I wasn’t making a point against them being humbling and learning experiences, but rather against the idea you can dip your toes in for a minute and be washed of your pretension (while writing an Atlantic article).

No worries, that makes sense; thanks for clarifying. I particularly like this:

> rather against the idea you can dip your toes in for a minute and be washed of your pretension

Re: I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Packages for Amazon (2018)

#117

Post by conductr »

gonehome wrote: post #19
seibelj wrote: post #12

> Lurching west in stop-and-go traffic on I-80 that morning, bound for Berkeley and a day of delivering in the rain, I had a low moment, dwelling on how far I’d come down in the world. Then I snapped out of it. I haven’t come down in the world. What’s come down in the world is the business model that sustained Time Inc. for decades. I’m pretty much the same writer, the same guy. I haven’t gone anywhere. My feet are t…

Yeah - I liked that part of his essay too, I also just generally liked his writing. There’s something satisfying in this kind of work with clear explicit goals and getting through the list everyday. I think a lot of society issues seem to stem from how he briefly felt, that this kind of thing was a sign of failure or that he was embarrassed to tell friends at the holiday party. The irony to me is that this kind of wo…

> There’s something satisfying in this kind of work with clear explicit goals and getting through the list everyday.

This sums up my mid career crisis. I miss the jobs of my youth where I was just scheduled, showed up, did tasks, and left when scheduled. Of course, a flaw of memories like this is I mainly remember the good parts. When I really try, I remember things like lack of flexibility (working from home, leaving early to meet the plumber/doctor, etc) and honestly how difficult living on a low wage actually was and that was before all the responsibilities I’ve accumulated (family, homes, etc).

Also, I always found these jobs truly fun. The carefreeness of other employees and they types of characters you came across was eclectic and interesting. Corporate America does not allow of much of that and is fairly homogeneous even when diversified.

Re: I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Packages for Amazon (2018)

#118

Post by mertd »

fortran77 wrote: post #57

I know that many of us here don't like what labor unions have become in the 21st century. But they do need some labor representation that can ensure the trucks used by drivers have working lights, mirrors, and safe tires, and that the company negotiates use of restrooms around the city. Maybe just a "safety only" union that only deals with safety issues?

All of those should be a law of some form.

Re: I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Packages for Amazon (2018)

#119

Post by ergot_vacation »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #25
seibelj wrote: post #12

> Lurching west in stop-and-go traffic on I-80 that morning, bound for Berkeley and a day of delivering in the rain, I had a low moment, dwelling on how far I’d come down in the world. Then I snapped out of it. I haven’t come down in the world. What’s come down in the world is the business model that sustained Time Inc. for decades. I’m pretty much the same writer, the same guy. I haven’t gone anywhere. My feet are t…

I felt bad for him in the moment when he talked about being judged for being a senior and doing a "menial" job. Being a delivery driver is certainly not a high status job but I think it's a reminder not to allow ourselves to look down on any particular role in society. We need all these types of work for the gears to keep turning.

It's not an issue of "looking down" though. We absolutely need these jobs (some of them anyway, we don't really need restaurants for example). That's all the more reason to ensure that they are sustainable. We need rules so that people are paid well, working in safe conditions, not being overworked, etc. As a society we need to ensure that people doing vital stuff like delivery are protected and taken care of, for our sake as well as theirs. Post-Covid, Amazon has essentially become a core part of US infrastructure, as much or moreso than the USPS.

And of course, all of this is even more important for the reason the article highlights: These are the jobs people end up in now. In a country with a vanishing middle class and terrible social safety nets for seniors, increasingly large numbers of people end up here. Not just criminals, those who aren't especially bright or those who are a bit unlucky, but good, capable ordinary people have nowhere else to go now. If we're all going to be living here now, we need to start cleaning the place up.

Re: I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Packages for Amazon (2018)

#120

Post by ryandrake »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #47
seibelj wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that in the USA you would have a much harder time finding an able-bodied person who cannot find an available job vs. someone with multiple options. My news this week is full of stories of employers who cannot find enough labor. We are very far away from a jobs crisis.

> My news this week is full of stories of employers who cannot find enough labor. If someone said this about employment in software dev there'd be a thousand comments about how there isn't a shortage of labor, just of labor at the price point businesses want to pay.

This is true for almost all labor "shortages" when there is anything less than full employment. If you struggle to find workers at a given wage, you're not paying enough. It's not like the world is out of people.
Post reply on HN