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Will Linux phones stay around this time?

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Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#321

Post by herbst »

EvilEy3 wrote: post #315
herbst wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Popups, weird confirmation dialogs nobody reads, configurations hidden in X different uis without console interface, the amount of screen space wasted for whatever reasons and the possibility that the wasted space contains text and icons that suddenly start to blink and move (attention seeking apps), .... I feel distracted working on Windows or Mac. As if someone is putting stones everywhere and i have to mangle inbe…

I don't see how any of this happens all the time. If I were to maximize terminal and IDE/Browser I won't see those things either.

You are likely more used to it than i am. Thing is even if i maximize my terminal on windows or mac, how much can i actually do without switching context to get some things done. Switching between software is also not what i consider distructing. Its the how, the discovery of files and software, the switching between windows, switching between possibly dozens of windows of the same kind. How many key strokes are some actions away? (Given mac is a lot better in this degree than windows).

Some approaches on linux, be it gnome or kde or tiled solutions are just so much more efficient

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#322

Post by rjsw »

dagw wrote: post #215
jacquesm wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without Linux Android wouldn't have gotten off the ground.

Without Google, Android would never have gotten off the ground. Imagine an alternate history where Google bought QNX instead of Android Inc. back in 2005, do you think Android would still dominate the Mobile OS market today, or do you think Google QNX would be the dominant mobile OS.

Or where Google bought Danger Inc. instead of Microsoft and carried on using NetBSD as a mobile OS.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#323

Post by teddyh »

tedchs wrote: post #319

Stories about "Linux as the underdog" have confused me for several years. The truth is, Linux has won, and it's OK to recognize that. The majority of phones sold are "Linux phones" -- it's the kernel for Android! The top selling laptops for years provide "Linux on the desktop" -- Chromebooks run ChromeOS, which is Linux! Nearly all host servers, at nearly every cloud provider, run Linux. The vast majority of cloud VM…

Google is absolutely itching to replace the last GPL component of Android – Linux – with their own software, Fuchsia. Google will then control the whole stack, with no obligation to anyone. This has been coming for a long time; IIUC, Android started with many components from the larger GNU/Linux ecosystem, but today only Linux itself remains.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#324

Post by Siira »

tedchs wrote: post #319

Stories about "Linux as the underdog" have confused me for several years. The truth is, Linux has won, and it's OK to recognize that. The majority of phones sold are "Linux phones" -- it's the kernel for Android! The top selling laptops for years provide "Linux on the desktop" -- Chromebooks run ChromeOS, which is Linux! Nearly all host servers, at nearly every cloud provider, run Linux. The vast majority of cloud VM…

The kernel isn't useful alone. I am 90% happy with my macOS. Its kernel is not as good as Linux, but it runs all my unix apps. I can use free, mature software solutions for most of my needs; E.g., I use mpv and a WiFi-connected HDD to listen to music. (With a much more pleasant playlist creation UI thanks to ugrep and fzf.)

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#325

Post by konart »

ryukafalz wrote: post #285
konart wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>this is as untrue as "Year $YEAR will be year of Linux on desktop" was so far (posting from laptop running Linux) This will be untrue when linux will have noticeable* share of installs. Not just you and some other tech guys who amount to grand total of 2-3% of desktop systems. [*] - at least 10-15%.

Who cares if its marketshare is above some arbitrary number so long as there's enough interest to keep development going? It doesn't matter to me what other people are using, I find Linux desktops to be the most comfortable thing for me, so I use them! If other people are satisfied with Windows and everything that goes along with it (forced auto-updates, ads, etc) - fine! You do you. I'm happy with what I have though…

I haven't touched windows as a software developer since around 2008, so I don't know what's going on in there really. So long as I can launch games in my steam lib I'm fine.

My main working OS was Ubuntu (~2006-2010) and Arch(20010-2013). Then I got tired of my Android phone and switched to iPhone and mac book. (if that matters somehow)

As for you question - you were saying, quote:

>this is as untrue as "Year $YEAR will be year of Linux on desktop" was so far (posting from laptop running Linux)

when answering to

> Linux desktop is nowhere

I was merely pointing out that your preferences has nothing to do with general situation. And the general situation is that Linux is almost nonexistent on desktop. Hence no 'Year $YEAR will be year of Linux on desktop"' being not true so far. The phrase was and is about linux taking some meaningfull portion of market for itself, not about a you using it. Obviously linux was on desktop since 90s

You do you, nobody is trying to take it away from you.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#326

Post by david-cako »

tedchs wrote: post #319

Stories about "Linux as the underdog" have confused me for several years. The truth is, Linux has won, and it's OK to recognize that. The majority of phones sold are "Linux phones" -- it's the kernel for Android! The top selling laptops for years provide "Linux on the desktop" -- Chromebooks run ChromeOS, which is Linux! Nearly all host servers, at nearly every cloud provider, run Linux. The vast majority of cloud VM…

Linux is pervasive because it's free (gratis) and flexible, but customers aren't necessarily seeing the core benefits of the Linux philosophy in terms of liberty and privacy. These examples of Linux succeeding are where some sort of application stack is very non-libre and often non-gratis, but maybe that's just one example of how to commercialize Linux. It's a generalized and well supported base for commercial products and services that is less restrictive and costly than other OSs, which is why we saw it replace server Unix distributions and even Windows Server in some cases. Many companies are embracing open source and extensibility more and more, though, which is definitely a good thing.

I'm interested to see a stronger focus on privacy and liberty in consumer Linux products like smart devices and IoT. Somehow iOS/MacOS, a markedly closed system, is the only one that really seems to be going in that direction right now.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#327

Post by hasmanean »

Beldin wrote: post #228
AussieWog93 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's simpler than that. Unpaid developers overwhelmingly prefer to work on the intellectually "sexy" problems such as encryption or compilers, to the detriment of the boring-yet-important stuff like UI improvements and hardware compatibility (let alone proper QA).

It's even simpler than that. Who wants to work on changing a UI that they themselves are comfortable with? It's work with - best case - no benefit in the eyes of the developer. Worse, you likely will break workflows - including your own. Sexyness doesn't need to factor in at all. And do note the nice uncanny valley of no change: in order to improve the UI, you need to understand the program well. In order for that to…

One more thing: some people have no eye for aesthetics. I’ve seen (smart) people defend a piece of code, and when I show them a refactored version, they say “that’s literally the exact same thing I wrote.”

No it’s not, and yes it is, in the sense that’s a^2 + 2ab + c^2 is not the same thing as (a+b)^2, but they (should and ideally must) evaluate to the same thing. I say ideally because only in the case of using infinite precision arithmetic can you guarantee this for all values of a,b,c.

People blind to these patterns cannot see how to simplify things, whether math or code or UIs.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#328

Post by slver »

megous wrote: post #298
slver wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone at all, as long as there are millions of them and they want to actually buy those phones, not just rant about Android and Apple online.

What consumer problems this solves depends on who the consumer is. For me as a dev/consumer and a long time Linux user it solves a lot of usability issues. For people used to Android, who don't want to develop anything, or don't care about software licenses, or being able to debug and control their devices when issues happen, it solves little, compared to a random locked down Android phone. For people who just want t…

You've defined your market, it seems, as enthusiast developers who want Linux. But stock Android (without the Google services) is that already. It's FOSS, it uses the Linux kernel, and it comes with the infrastructure to run mobile apps. Even better, it's compatible with many Android apps (as long as they don't need Google Services).

So what problem would another Linux mobile OS solve?

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#330

Post by II2II »

dudeman13 wrote: post #277
EvilEy3 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> plenty of us Which is a soooo tiny minority that it won't even show up on charts. > It's absolutely impossible to discover but I think it involves a "reverse three finger pinch." That's a shitty UX, not UI.

Can't have bad UI if there is no visible UI taps head

User interfaces are how you interact with a computer. That includes visual and non-visual elements. Widgets you tap on the screen, gestures you make with your fingers, hotkeys, and commands entered are all components of the UI. If you pinched your fingers together on a touch screen and the view started zooming in it would be just as bad as clicking on a magnifying glass with a '-' symbol and it zooming in, even though the former is not visible.
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