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Chia surpasses 1 exabyte of hard drive space

chiaexplorer.com

151–160 of 175 posts

Re: Chia surpasses 1 exabyte of hard drive space

#151

Chia pre-mined 6 years worth of block rewards. Proof-of-space may be the closest thing we have to a viable proof-of-work replacement but this instantiation of it feels like a get rich quick scheme for its founders. Edit: My calculation was based on the initial reward schedule of 64 units per block, but when you take into account the fact that it ramps down to 4 units per block shortly thereafter, it's actually a prem…

Feel free to fork a version without a premine.

The code is licensed under a FOSS license, I believe.

Re: Chia surpasses 1 exabyte of hard drive space

#152
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that would be unfortunate. That kind of special-purpose hardware would go against the "anyone can farm" spirit of Chia and likely worsen the environmental impact since those drives wouldn't be useful for other applications.

"Anyone can farm" is clearly only going to be a thing while the project stays small. It will always be more cost efficient to assemble tens of thousands of the most optimal hard drives/CPU's/ASICS in a big room, bulk ordering them all cheaply, than it will be to DIY it yourself at home. Any kind of mining will always end up costing exactly the same as the revenue. And that means you and I will make a loss at home. Yo…

Also, unused space is not just wasted, but utilized to efficient (less fragmented) data placing and wear leveling.

Re: Chia surpasses 1 exabyte of hard drive space

#153
post #38
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's a one-time deal — hard drives can keep farming forever after they're manufactured with minimal electricity consumption Let's say your mining operation brings in $1000/day in revenue. If it's mining bitcoin you might be paying $500/day in electricity bills, leaving you with $500 as profit to reinvest in the business (ie. buy more hardware). If it's mining chia you might be paying $50/day in electricity. That's $…

It all depends on the economics. It's pretty likely that at some point reinvesting in Chia by buying more drives just doesn't make sense. You can also read more about the power consumption of Chia here: https://chiapower.org/

What do you mean? Chia miners will be forced to continually expand capacity, otherwise they will be left behind by difficulty adjustment as other miners expand capacity instead.

Chia does only one thing: replace $1000 spent on electricity with $1000 spent on SSD manufacturing. It’s unclear which one is worse for the environment, but I think it’s likely that SSD manufacturing is worse, given the (real) mining and toxic chemicals involved.

Re: Chia surpasses 1 exabyte of hard drive space

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to be obtuse, but why is authority tied to amount of coin owned any more plutocratic than authority tied to amount of computing resources used? Both cost money, and both scale power with amount of money sunk into it.

Because PoW miners have very little authority tied to their computing resources. Users have prevailed in Bitcoin forkwars over miners and many large exchanges and businesses. Miners are really more similar to employees of the network, that order transaction in exchange for fees. They are not masters of the protocol, and cannot dictate its rules. Proof of Work has a nuclear option (change of hashing algo) that would b…

This is nonsensical. PoS users can change any parameters of the chain just as easily as PoW users can change the hashing algorithm. If all the PoS users switch to a version of the full node and or light client software that has the biggest holder’s balance reduced to zero, there is nothing anyone can do to stop them. It is the exact same thing as if PoW users switch to a full node software with a different hashing algo.

Re: Chia surpasses 1 exabyte of hard drive space

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to be obtuse, but why is authority tied to amount of coin owned any more plutocratic than authority tied to amount of computing resources used? Both cost money, and both scale power with amount of money sunk into it.

Because PoW miners have very little authority tied to their computing resources. Users have prevailed in Bitcoin forkwars over miners and many large exchanges and businesses. Miners are really more similar to employees of the network, that order transaction in exchange for fees. They are not masters of the protocol, and cannot dictate its rules. Proof of Work has a nuclear option (change of hashing algo) that would b…

This is not true. Cosmos network (PoS network based on Tendermint consensus) is running successfully since 2019 for example.

Re: Chia surpasses 1 exabyte of hard drive space

#156
post #9

chia claims that its proof of work alternative is "eco-friendly"[1]. This is also reflected in their advertising material, eg. instead of having a whitepaper they have a "greenpaper", and rather than mining they have "farming. While it's true that proof space is less energy intensive to "farm", wouldn't economics dictate that the resource consumption is equal to proof of work's resource consumption? All you're doing…

You mean the Jevons Paradox[1]?

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

Re: Chia surpasses 1 exabyte of hard drive space

#157
post #94
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

check prices it's already fucked

First the miners came for our graphics cards. Now they're taking our hard drives.

it's been 80% hell on gpu markets but asics did eventually offload pressure on most propf-of-work markets. and the blowback was overall pretty good & nice, albeit also saturated the secondary markets with cards used heavily, often over locked to shit, ready to fail, whereas typically such cards on ebay would have been great buys. but it pushes prices down nicely none the less, when asics took out the gpu market.

there's not really any way to tailor this new shitcoin to specialry hardware: if these fuck gains the all too much religious following, it will shred the storage market. there's no hacks, no special optimizations. there will never ever be relief. it will be reality versus their imaginary but profit making fantasy, pratical use versus endless speculative/zero-sum profiteering forever and ever & fuck them fuck that fuck this so so so much. what a horrible curse.

almost none of these cryptocoin nft whatever activities have any premise or use other than trying to get rich. what a disgraceful use. i'd label it all as esoteric but esoterics often have very powerful underlying use & powers: this is almost all a huge fucking sham where the value is nearly entirely an imaginary number, one too many fucks imagine.

Re: Chia surpasses 1 exabyte of hard drive space

#158
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the business whitepaper to see what they are doing with the pre-farm. https://www.chia.net/2021/02/10/chia-businesss-whitepaper.ht... You are free to agree or disagree with the plan, but need to read it before coming to any conclusions.

So the gist of the "strategic reserve" is that they will use pre-mined coins to bolster the company's value and enrich the shareholders.

Ore mine these days just means "we want to get rich off this first, and we don't really want to put any effort or resources into ensuring this. So we are going to allocate ourselves X% of total supply.

Satoshi had the decency to mine his coins alongside everyone else.

Re: Chia surpasses 1 exabyte of hard drive space

#159

Chia pre-mined 6 years worth of block rewards. Proof-of-space may be the closest thing we have to a viable proof-of-work replacement but this instantiation of it feels like a get rich quick scheme for its founders. Edit: My calculation was based on the initial reward schedule of 64 units per block, but when you take into account the fact that it ramps down to 4 units per block shortly thereafter, it's actually a prem…

Literally every issued asset in history has a "premine", but somehow last decade's crypto aficionados find this controversial. It's so strange to even care and the market obviously does not care because there is like half a millenium of it never caring. It's nice to see the crypto market maturing and ignoring these people so segregated from every other financial market because they never traded anything else. Low flo…

Bitcoin had no premine.

Re: Chia surpasses 1 exabyte of hard drive space

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> simply provide all the storage space first and get the exact same "insta-mine" result while advertising it to people like you that actually care about no premines. A dozen ways to get the same result, its all marketing. You only get the same result if you completely monopolize mining for the first twenty-one years . If you control 50% of mining, it would take 119 years to achieve the equivalent. My issue is not tha…

Fair point, founder rewards are pretty common too. Square Inc creates new shares for Jack Dorsey to sell like every week or so. Continual dilution that the market tolerated. Although fairly unique for the equities space, these are the case studies we are growing up with now.

Do you have a source for that? Doesn't seem like a legit practice on an ongoing basis.
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