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Will Linux phones stay around this time?

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Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#51

Post by heavyset_go »

robolange wrote: post #19

Openmoko failed for so much more than financial reasons. It's been a while since I've thought of that fiasco, but my memories: * The leadership was terrible. They had no clue what it took to make a mass market product. They just assumed that they would sell hardware and a community would provide a working operating system and apps magically. * The hardware was buggy. There was one issue that if you let the battery dr…

From the same era, I had Nokia's N770, N810 and N900. All three were based on Linux, and they were great.

I also had the Palm Pre and Pre 2, both of which were based on Linux (and apps were made with HTML, CSS, and JS in 2009!), and those were also great.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#52

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

danielheath wrote: post #16
InvertedRhodium wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android is not Linux any more than Chrome or Firefox is Linux just because it runs on top of it.

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're refering to as Linux, is in fact, Android/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Android plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning Android system made useful by the Android corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

I think you're joking, but unironically yes; Android/Linux is Linux, just like GNU/Linux and busybox/Linux (or however you want to call Alpine).

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#53

Post by augusto-moura »

rbanffy wrote: post #44
dspillett wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends what is being meant by Linux. Yes they run a variant of the Linux kernel, and there is some commonality in parts of the common libraries, but there are significant differences atop that which makes it quite different to your average desktop Linux. The overall Android environment isn't Debian, Ubuntu, RedHat, ..., or other GNU/Linux environment. (the downvotes you currently have there given the graying text ar…

Android is running Linux as much as my router is. Or my TV. Or all those docker containers with a thin image and a Go application. It’s not a desktop Linux OS, of course. But it’s still Linux.

Yes, my router is Linux, and my TV is also linux (containers not quite, because they don't emulate the kernel, except for Windows and macOS machines, that NEED to emulate at least one kernel instance, but whatever). And is pretty clear to me those limitations. More than my router, or my TV, or any embedded system for that matter, Android does try to follow other systems specifications, it has a own libc implementation, you can still utilize most of linux that we are used of: filesystems, syscalls, networking, even containerization (all of them limited and various levels, of course).

That is what makes a linux distribution too me in my opinion, in the same way I can run a linux with musl libc, and busybox, I can run Android

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#54

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

lostmsu wrote: post #38
kgwxd wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't think of an Android app I'd prefer over a Linux alternative. Edit: Maybe Google Maps, but that's it.

What would you like for Email on your phone from the Linux world? A web browser? Contacts app? These are essentials for the phone. What about an RSS client?

> What would you like for Email on your phone from the Linux world?

I actually run mutt on Android already (yay termux), so should be fine.

> A web browser?

What's wrong with Firefox or chromium?

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#55

Post by robolange »

serf wrote: post #50
robolange wrote: post #19

Openmoko failed for so much more than financial reasons. It's been a while since I've thought of that fiasco, but my memories: * The leadership was terrible. They had no clue what it took to make a mass market product. They just assumed that they would sell hardware and a community would provide a working operating system and apps magically. * The hardware was buggy. There was one issue that if you let the battery dr…

>I was so done with it that I just dropped it in the trash (after wiping it, of course). next time you have an urge to throw a battery-equipped device into the trash(!?), consider donation. you may not like the device but someone out there may be thrilled at the chance to de-solder some useful components.

Most of the hardware I've ever owned I still have, either in working order or as component boards decorating my walls. I recall my emotion when disposing of the Freerunner was that it didn't deserve an epic funeral (the laser) or even the honor of being properly disassembled.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#57

Post by jchw »

oneplane wrote: post #29
jchw wrote: post #6

I enjoy the Pinephone, but it certainly has its issues. I’d kill for better performance; it’s very close to usability. I also have some issues with the hardware (it seems my battery has stopped working entirely, recently.) On the other hand, there is one confounding software issue that I think makes it the hardest as a full replacement for a modern smartphone: push notifications. An equivalent for APNS or FCM that al…

Without mass-market and the scale that comes with it (including returning income from existing users) it's near impossible to provide the same nice UX as an iPhone or a Google-riddled Android phone. That's the whole problem with most projects and why they neither produce acceptable usability nor a an acceptable price point. It's not that it's not technically possible, it's just infeasible without becoming yet another…

I’m not very concerned with it competing per se; they managed to put out a fairly compelling package and sell through 30k units. Yeah, they won’t be fabbing custom ARM cores any time soon, but it ain’t nothing.

Open source software is a slow burn. It takes time, but projects can grow for a very long time even when things seem dormant, and then suddenly seemingly out of nowhere things are actually pretty good. I certainly was impressed with how well they were able to bring GNOME onto phones so far.

It’ll always work best if people don’t consider them to be on the same level as commercial software; it has a different appeal, but one that should not be discounted. Just as there have been so many “year of the Linux desktops,” so to have there been many incorrect calls about the death of it.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#58

Post by heavyset_go »

dehrmann wrote: post #31

What's the benefit to a true Linux phone over running LineageOS? LineageOS at least is essentially Android, so the ecosystem is there.

Android apps are becoming more and more dependent on the closed source blobs that Google ships with Android devices, so some apps might not work without them. Although microG exists, it isn't perfect and some apps still won't run with it.

A Linux phone can forgo Google's userspace libraries for Android, and if they're really needed, Android can just run in a container like with Anbox. Instead, it can ship with the typical GNU, busybox or ulibc userland that most Linux users are familiar with.

Also, you can use pretty much any language or runtime to write apps for Linux, while you're stuck with the Android Runtime, Android NDK and Java compatible languages and runtimes on Android.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#59

Post by robolange »

heavyset_go wrote: post #51
robolange wrote: post #19

Openmoko failed for so much more than financial reasons. It's been a while since I've thought of that fiasco, but my memories: * The leadership was terrible. They had no clue what it took to make a mass market product. They just assumed that they would sell hardware and a community would provide a working operating system and apps magically. * The hardware was buggy. There was one issue that if you let the battery dr…

From the same era, I had Nokia's N770, N810 and N900. All three were based on Linux, and they were great. I also had the Palm Pre and Pre 2, both of which were based on Linux (and apps were made with HTML, CSS, and JS in 2009!), and those were also great.

After getting rid of my Freerunner, I had one of the the first Android phones (HTC?) briefly, then got a Nokia N900. I liked the OS, although it's my memory that it wasn't as fully open sourced as the OpenMoko. I did enjoy it, even though the device always felt too thick to be comfortable in my pocket, and the touchscreen cracked badly after a minor impact. I ended up using a cheap Nokia candybar phone for a year or so, before eventually getting another Android phone.

I wish Nokia had continued developing the Maemo OS.

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