Live data from Hacker News

What is Chia cryptocurrency and why is it bad news for hard drives?

tomsguide.com

31–40 of 263 posts

Re: What is Chia cryptocurrency and why is it bad news for hard drives?

#31

I asked this recently but the topic died before I got many answers. Basically, I’m not a cryptocurrency denier. I just don’t understand it. Do people want cryptocurrency because they want to spend it on stuff? Or do they want cryptocurrency because they want to sell it for other currencies? In other words, at what point will a cryptocurrency stand on its own as something that’s worth a pair of shoes? Instead of being…

Outside the options you mentioned, people buy crypto because the tech is cool, and the idea of a trustless decentralized system apeals to them.

The end goal isn't really clear. Perhaps the main thesis is like VC investing. Cool stuff now might become useful and valuable later.

Re: What is Chia cryptocurrency and why is it bad news for hard drives?

#32
post #17
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can always hope that trading Chia is made illegal, along with proof of work algorithm based currencies in general. Governments so-far failing to regulate existential threats to themselves is honestly odd.

>Governments so-far failing to regulate existential threats to themselves is honestly odd. Is it the job of the government to hang onto power at all costs?

It is, sort off, the inherent goal of a (nation-)state. At least, that is a common and rather accurate historical and geopolitical model.

Re: What is Chia cryptocurrency and why is it bad news for hard drives?

#33
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think I have ever heard of proof of space, is it the same as proof of stake?

Completely different things. In Proof of Stake, the network (roughly!) allocates rewards for validating transactions based on the amount of coins you have, i.e., your stake in the network. In Proof of Space, the network allocates rewards based on you proving that you are really storing the data you were supposed to store. If you fail to produce a proof for some data item the network expected you to have stored, you l…

> In Proof of Space, the network allocates rewards based on you proving that you are really storing the data you were supposed to store.

Sort of? But you're usually not really storing data for proof of space. That's a different kind of system.

Re: What is Chia cryptocurrency and why is it bad news for hard drives?

#34
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think I have ever heard of proof of space, is it the same as proof of stake?

Completely different things. In Proof of Stake, the network (roughly!) allocates rewards for validating transactions based on the amount of coins you have, i.e., your stake in the network. In Proof of Space, the network allocates rewards based on you proving that you are really storing the data you were supposed to store. If you fail to produce a proof for some data item the network expected you to have stored, you l…

Another important wrinkle is that Chia’s proof-of-space needs you to prove you’ve stored the right cryptographic noise - rather than, for example, any useful data.

Re: What is Chia cryptocurrency and why is it bad news for hard drives?

#35
Folks here might be interested in Chia's smart contract language: https://chialisp.com/

Basically the designers saw how easily many Ethereum/Solidity contracts were hacked and saw that stateful side effects were the main culprit so they made their language have no side effects! Pretty cool.

Re: What is Chia cryptocurrency and why is it bad news for hard drives?

#36
Interesting. There are a bunch of variants, but it seems like there are three main ways of handling crypto.

Bitcoin is proof of work, which of course requires a lot of electricity.

Some coins, like Neo/CutCoin are proof of stake, which basically let you stake some money, which I guess you can't spend and use that to handle transactions, so instead of running mining rigs, you just stake the money and earn a return. Ethereum is planning to move to proof of stake. Kinda like how your FDIC insured bank can loan your deposit out.

Chiacoin, is proof of space and time, IE proof of assigned storage through the use of stored data, plus a verified delay function (slow to calculate, fast to verify hashing basically). The latter part needs only one processor, so whoever calculates fastest is accepted, so you aren't running a bunch of miners racing to benefit.

I'm not sure that I see the benefit of proof of space and time except in the case of things like filecoin, where you are basically paid for storing stuff on your hard drive without changing it. Chia coin is, if I understand things correctly, just sticking random numbers on a SDD to "farm" them. I mean the VDF stuff is cool to be sure, but it seems like in the case of Chia it's just wasting memory space with random numbers rather then incentivizing storage of existing data.

Is there a better system than proof of stake, in terms of just not being absurdly wasteful in terms of energy or storage capacity?

For the purpose of responsible disclosure, I do have less than $20 bucks of ethereum atm, and that's the only amount of any coin mentioned above. I have no investments in the companies behind any of the above coins.

Re: What is Chia cryptocurrency and why is it bad news for hard drives?

#37
post #22
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's an alternative mental model... Let's talk about Filecoin (related to Chia) for file storage. Assume for the moment that all 2 billion tokens are in circulation. At any given time, there is a market of people looking to store files and people willing to store those files for a fee. You're transacting (roughly) in Gb-years at today's level of technology -- i.e. willingness to store 1Gb of data for 1 year. Regula…

These velocity of money models can't account for even a small fraction of cryptocurrency valuations. For example, if your model says Filecoin is worth $10 but it's currently trading for $160... clearly the buyers are not pre-purchasing storage.

https://file.app will give you a reasonable approximation of the current value of Filecoin in Gb-years. From what I can tell, it still compares very favorably to various AWS offerings even at today's price. You could make a reasoned case that recent price run-up was more related to discovery than fundamentals... But regardless, my stated supposition assumed we reached steady state on token issuance (i.e. many years into the future).

New paradigms are likely to exhibit a lot of volatility during their onset, but timing matters less than giant rising tides. Time will tell.

Re: What is Chia cryptocurrency and why is it bad news for hard drives?

#38
post #23

oh great, another item that will be impossible to buy soon thanks, miners the sooner someone introduces the law to ban all proof of work crypto, the better - or at least banning companies from taking or using PoW crypto would be a good start

The India model is right -- give people 6 months to sell off their assets and make it illegal.

Re: What is Chia cryptocurrency and why is it bad news for hard drives?

#39
post #5

Do they have a benchmark for how many tps that Chia can handle ?

Bram Cohen has been quoted as estimating ~20 TPS at Layer 1.

Great, now nobody's going to have CI so we can get 3TPS on BTC, nobody's going to have GPUs so we can get 12TPS on ETH and now nobody's going to have SSDs so we can have 20TPS on Chia. The future is now.

Re: What is Chia cryptocurrency and why is it bad news for hard drives?

#40
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can always hope that trading Chia is made illegal, along with proof of work algorithm based currencies in general. Governments so-far failing to regulate existential threats to themselves is honestly odd.

Chia is not Proof of Work, FWIW. Their technical and business whitepapers are helpful resources for learning more about what they call "Proof of Space and Time".

All of them are Proof of Waste.
Post reply on HN