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Egyptologists uncover rare tombs from before the Pharaohs

reuters.com

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Re: Egyptologists uncover rare tombs from before the Pharaohs

#51

Post by ncmncm »

wl wrote: post #49
ncmncm wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The inscriptions were very obviously not done in the same physical culture as produced the boxes. The boxes are marvels that could not be produced even by the best modern stonecraft methods. The inscriptions are crude hammerings; one might equally-well equate genetic engineering with tattooing. Nobody knows how old the boxes are, or the tunnels they are in. All that is clear is that later people used the site.

I don't find your conclusion obvious. Yes, the construction seems better than older Egyptian examples. But that makes sense: the later date of construction in the Iron Age means more ubiquitous iron tools. The inscriptions don't seem crude to me. Better than the Rosetta Stone. Worse than the Stele of Thonis-Heracleion. In short: You don't give Saite-period stonemasons enough credit. But this is a digression. You want…

I have no opinion about the intentions for boxes found in the pyramids, and no evidence to cite. But the idea of boxes never intended to contain actual, physical corpses is demonstrated not to be an absurdity.

The Rosetta Stone's uneven lines are markedly better-made than the crude inscriptions lately applied to the Saqqara boxes.

The quality and precision of stonework seen in the boxes at Saqqara most resembles that of the best archaic and pre-dynastic jars.

Re: Egyptologists uncover rare tombs from before the Pharaohs

#52

Post by apotheon »

lastofthemojito wrote: post #23
intergalplan wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, a bunch of stuff that seems super-old actually isn't. There were still lions in the Caucusus until the 10th century... CE, not BCE. A thousand years earlier they lived in Thrace, too. There were still some wooly mammoths alive when the Great Pyramids were being built. Similarly, living history can sometimes reach closer to the modern day than one might appreciate. There were (probably—some of the stories lack d…

Apparently it was coined by Alger Hiss, but I've seen Jason Kottke use the term "The Great Span" to describe this phenomenon of a small number of generations spanning surprisingly long periods of time. Looking at that tag on kottke.org, the top few results are a Civil War widow dying in 2020, John Tyler (president in 1841) having a living grandson, and a 2020 interview with the son of a formerly enslaved person. Wild…

Just for the sake of those who might misunderstand this comment:

She wasn't a "Civil War widow" per se. She was not widowed by the death of her husband in the Civil War. She was seventeen years old in 1936, and married a ninety-three year old Civil War veteran. She was the widow of a Civil War veteran.

Re: Egyptologists uncover rare tombs from before the Pharaohs

#53

Post by apotheon »

vmception wrote: post #28
martinflack wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite fact that puts time in perspective is that Cleopatra lived closer in time to the Moon Landing than the building of the great pyramids. (Also sometimes phrased as living closer in time to the first Pizza Hut instead of Moon Landing.) If you search it, you'll find listicles that go through a bunch of these fun facts.

The Pizza Hut is basically across the street from her home so that's pretty valid.

I guess that makes her closer in time and space.

Re: Egyptologists uncover rare tombs from before the Pharaohs

#54

Post by ncmncm »

wl wrote: post #50
throwaway17_17 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For someone who is unaware of Zawi Hawass and pretty uninformed about any serious Egyptology, can you explain what you mean. It seems a very interest topic for some medium reading while I wait in court tomorrow.

Zawi Hawass deserves a lot of criticism for being a fickle, controlling gatekeeper of archeological work in Egypt in his former role as Egyptian Minister of Antiquities. He often seems more interested in glorifying himself and promoting revenue than the scholarly exploration of the past. That said, he no longer holds any official position with the government. The Ministry of Antiquities has continued some of his bad…

Surface luminescence studies have been conducted on remarkably few samples. A test on a facing block of Menkaure's pyramid indicated the block was last exposed 5000 +/- 500 years ago, just barely edging into the conventional age of 4500 years.

Given the technique's obvious utility, the lack of interest seen in applying it can reasonably be interpreted as unwillingness to have conventional interpretations tested.

"Crank" is a prejudicial term when applied to topics with only conventional consensus, without evidentiary backing.

Re: Egyptologists uncover rare tombs from before the Pharaohs

#55

Post by wl »

ncmncm wrote: post #54
wl wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zawi Hawass deserves a lot of criticism for being a fickle, controlling gatekeeper of archeological work in Egypt in his former role as Egyptian Minister of Antiquities. He often seems more interested in glorifying himself and promoting revenue than the scholarly exploration of the past. That said, he no longer holds any official position with the government. The Ministry of Antiquities has continued some of his bad…

Surface luminescence studies have been conducted on remarkably few samples. A test on a facing block of Menkaure's pyramid indicated the block was last exposed 5000 +/- 500 years ago, just barely edging into the conventional age of 4500 years. Given the technique's obvious utility, the lack of interest seen in applying it can reasonably be interpreted as unwillingness to have conventional interpretations tested. "Cra…

The more boring explanation: Egypt wants to control the exploitation of Pharaonic material culture under their control, which they consider their cultural patrimony. If they can't do the tests and get the glory, they don't want others to do so instead. For an example of this, see Hawass' decision preventing foreigners from doing DNA testing of mummies in Egypt, dismissing it as useless, followed by him personally publishing such work a decade later.

In any case, there is plenty of Old Kingdom material in foreign museums that is available for testing.

Re: Egyptologists uncover rare tombs from before the Pharaohs

#56

Post by ncmncm »

wl wrote: post #55
ncmncm wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surface luminescence studies have been conducted on remarkably few samples. A test on a facing block of Menkaure's pyramid indicated the block was last exposed 5000 +/- 500 years ago, just barely edging into the conventional age of 4500 years. Given the technique's obvious utility, the lack of interest seen in applying it can reasonably be interpreted as unwillingness to have conventional interpretations tested. "Cra…

The more boring explanation: Egypt wants to control the exploitation of Pharaonic material culture under their control, which they consider their cultural patrimony. If they can't do the tests and get the glory, they don't want others to do so instead. For an example of this, see Hawass' decision preventing foreigners from doing DNA testing of mummies in Egypt, dismissing it as useless, followed by him personally pub…

Surface luminescence testing depends on the sample not having been exposed to light since it was placed, something hard to ascertain for items shipped to a museum.
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