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Say hello to Appsterdam: developers aim to move the Valley to Amsterdam

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Re: Say hello to Appsterdam: developers aim to move the Valley to Amsterdam

#71

Post by joris »

upthedale wrote: post #7

> a location that’s far less expensive, and easier to immigrate to, than Silicon Valley. 4 years ago I travelled (mostly-) western Europe by train, staying in some of the big cities. Compared to the likes of Paris, Barcelona, Rome and Munich, I felt Amsterdam was a lot more expensive. Of course times may have changed, and the comparison was to Silicon Valley, which I have no experience of, but it struck me as a stran…

Paris, Barcelona, Rome (maybe Munich too): You'd have to learn French, Spanish or Italian in order to live a normal life there. In Amsterdam, all the locals speak English, so it's pretty easy to stay here for several years without having to learn Dutch. I have several foreign friends who've been living here in Amsterdam for years without having learnt Dutch. Of course it's always better to know the local language wherever you live, but in Amsterdam you really don't have to.

Re: Say hello to Appsterdam: developers aim to move the Valley to Amsterdam

#72

Post by eelco »

ElDragonRojo wrote: post #46
tomh- wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it growing in a hub exactly? Where do all founders of successful startups hang out? There are some startups out there in Amsterdam, but there are many in other cities too (Utrecht, Delft, Enschede etc.). Amsterdam is definitely not a clear winner as location to found a startup among cities in Holland.

How is it growing as a hub exactly? Did you actually read the article? ;) Luckily Appsterdam is not limited to Amsterdam. This isn't a pissing match between Dutch cities. It's about international branding. Appschede doesn't sound as good. Most people associate Delft with pottery. Americans have never heard of Utrecht. As far as most people are concerned, these places are features of Amsterdam. But if you're in the Ne…

Utrecht, a whole city to buy your art supplies.

Re: Say hello to Appsterdam: developers aim to move the Valley to Amsterdam

#73

Post by perfunctory »

yread wrote: post #64
fmw wrote: post #34

Amsterdam is somewhat of a creative hub here in the Netherlands, with a lot of designers, photographers, advertising people and other creative types. There are also a number of good, but relatively expensive, data centers where you can host your servers. It has never really been a technical hub, though. Most technically focussed businesses (including startups) in the Netherlands seem to be in places like Eindhoven (w…

You can also get a significant discount on taxes (30% of your wage will be tax-free) by coming to the country as knowledge migrant. You have to get hired from abroad, be a specialist and earn high enough salary.

you don't have to be a knowledge migrant to get a so called 30% ruling. These are independent concepts.

Re: Say hello to Appsterdam: developers aim to move the Valley to Amsterdam

#74

Post by mva »

spif wrote: post #33
pg wrote: post #11

I've always felt Amsterdam would make a good startup hub. It has the right sort of atmosphere. Civilized without being pretentious.

The startup scene _is_ growing into a hub actually, although some elements (e.g. capital) are hard, others easier (hiring, advice). That feels like an honor coming from you, thanks. Have you been in Amsterdam often?

Wouldn't say that hiring is easier in Amsterdam... It's always hard to get real good developers and when pusing out a job vacancy, most responses are from non Dutch developers who want to work in Amsterdam (not that is a problem).

Re: Say hello to Appsterdam: developers aim to move the Valley to Amsterdam

#75

Post by tomh- »

ElDragonRojo wrote: post #46
tomh- wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it growing in a hub exactly? Where do all founders of successful startups hang out? There are some startups out there in Amsterdam, but there are many in other cities too (Utrecht, Delft, Enschede etc.). Amsterdam is definitely not a clear winner as location to found a startup among cities in Holland.

How is it growing as a hub exactly? Did you actually read the article? ;) Luckily Appsterdam is not limited to Amsterdam. This isn't a pissing match between Dutch cities. It's about international branding. Appschede doesn't sound as good. Most people associate Delft with pottery. Americans have never heard of Utrecht. As far as most people are concerned, these places are features of Amsterdam. But if you're in the Ne…

One initiative doesn't make it a hub. If you found a startup in Holland, there are plenty of other cities which are suitable to found. The distances are sort of close, so the reasons why you HQ your startup in the valley are not exactly applicable to Amsterdam, you get the same benefits in most other big cities with talent.

You are right it is not a pissing contest, but you mention exactly what Americans (or other foreigners) would think. Most foreigners don't know much about Holland and see everything as a sub-urb of Amsterdam. They don't know where the local talent is, where the good universities are, where (local) people want to live. Don't forget that Dutch people think Amsterdam is as cool as foreigners do.

Don't take me wrong, Appsterdam is a cool initiative, but to me it sounds like something by foreigners, for foreigners.

Re: Say hello to Appsterdam: developers aim to move the Valley to Amsterdam

#76

Post by tomh- »

ElDragonRojo wrote: post #49
NonEUCitizen wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rent is high. It's also difficult to find housing because most places use "Makelaars" (rental agents), and they tend to only want to show the apartments during office hours on weekdays.

Appsterdam also has an amazing housing agent who specializes in expats. I have a ground level apartment with a courtyard on the canal at Groenburgwal, which is in my opinion the nicest neighborhood in Amsterdam, right smack in the middle of everything, but quiet, and beautiful. Furnished, all inclusive: €1300/mo. I lived in San Francisco. An apartment this nice in a neighborhood this nice was well out of my price ran…

This is typically unaffordable for most developers (single). If you earn 50.000 euro per year, this would be 50% of your net-income. Most rental agencies have requirements on your income before you are eligible to rent an apartment. This could be 4 or 4.5 times your pretax income so you would require a 60-70k salary (or income) per year. That is 85k-100k USD. That is a high end salary, which only the most senior people would get.

Re: Say hello to Appsterdam: developers aim to move the Valley to Amsterdam

#77

Post by oscarkneppers »

aerique wrote: post #67
pg wrote: post #11

I've always felt Amsterdam would make a good startup hub. It has the right sort of atmosphere. Civilized without being pretentious.

Do a YC Europe and have your regional headquarters in Amsterdam.

PG, say what: hook up with Rockstart.com in Amsterdam, help build the greatest startup machine ever and come visit your new friends as often as you like! :)

Re: Say hello to Appsterdam: developers aim to move the Valley to Amsterdam

#78

Post by ElDragonRojo »

tomh- wrote: post #75
ElDragonRojo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it growing as a hub exactly? Did you actually read the article? ;) Luckily Appsterdam is not limited to Amsterdam. This isn't a pissing match between Dutch cities. It's about international branding. Appschede doesn't sound as good. Most people associate Delft with pottery. Americans have never heard of Utrecht. As far as most people are concerned, these places are features of Amsterdam. But if you're in the Ne…

One initiative doesn't make it a hub. If you found a startup in Holland, there are plenty of other cities which are suitable to found. The distances are sort of close, so the reasons why you HQ your startup in the valley are not exactly applicable to Amsterdam, you get the same benefits in most other big cities with talent. You are right it is not a pissing contest, but you mention exactly what Americans (or other fo…

It's not by foreigners for foreigners. Our attendees, and our volunteers, are about half expat, half local. Appsterdam will be a benefit to App Makers around the world, and also a tremendous boon to the Netherlands.

Re: Say hello to Appsterdam: developers aim to move the Valley to Amsterdam

#79

Post by ElDragonRojo »

tomh- wrote: post #76
ElDragonRojo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appsterdam also has an amazing housing agent who specializes in expats. I have a ground level apartment with a courtyard on the canal at Groenburgwal, which is in my opinion the nicest neighborhood in Amsterdam, right smack in the middle of everything, but quiet, and beautiful. Furnished, all inclusive: €1300/mo. I lived in San Francisco. An apartment this nice in a neighborhood this nice was well out of my price ran…

This is typically unaffordable for most developers (single). If you earn 50.000 euro per year, this would be 50% of your net-income. Most rental agencies have requirements on your income before you are eligible to rent an apartment. This could be 4 or 4.5 times your pretax income so you would require a 60-70k salary (or income) per year. That is 85k-100k USD. That is a high end salary, which only the most senior peop…

This represents about the nicest apartment in Amsterdam. Things get cheaper the further you move from the center. And what "most rental agencies" require doesn't affect us. We have our own agency.

Re: Say hello to Appsterdam: developers aim to move the Valley to Amsterdam

#80

Post by skrebbel »

wasigh wrote: post #65
fmw wrote: post #34

Amsterdam is somewhat of a creative hub here in the Netherlands, with a lot of designers, photographers, advertising people and other creative types. There are also a number of good, but relatively expensive, data centers where you can host your servers. It has never really been a technical hub, though. Most technically focussed businesses (including startups) in the Netherlands seem to be in places like Eindhoven (w…

Coming from Eindhoven I'am a bit jealous of the Startup community in Amsterdam. But still I would not really consider working in Amsterdam. The 1:20 hour single trip commute by train would take the best of me.

Then do a startup in Eindoven. On the international scale of things, Eindhoven is a suburb of Amsterdam. Or the other way around.

People don't live in SF and work in San Jose much, either.

That said, my underbelly feeling is that Eindhoven is getting a nice startup scene, slowly swelling, though mostly focused on devices and not so much on software. But in all honesty I don't think there's much of a difference. Whether my startup buddies make html5 apps or the next revolution in fitness machinery, we face much of the same kinds of problems.

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