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Audacity Aquired by Muse Group

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Re: Audacity Aquired by Muse Group

#151

Post by zxzax »

ratww wrote: post #146
zxzax wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may have missed some comments farther down the issue chain: >If MuseScore was not acquired and continued down the current path, it would have been already shut down by now. This is what many people do not understand. MuseScore was going to be shut down if it was not acquired and a plan put in place with rights holders. >Any site or system of distribution that includes copyrighted works and is done so unde…

No. There are never any excuses for making false accusations, like claiming that a publicly, documented, authenticated, third-party API was being used illegally. There is also no excuse for sending threats of use of physical force by CCP instead of sending a proper DMCA. Even if musescore-downloader was doing illegal things (and I would argue it wasn't, since there was no circumvention of anything), the law should be…

One, it's possible the API was being used illegally. If that's the issue then that should be what's discussed, but let's save that for up thread.

Two, the DMCA seems to not apply here, if this is a Chinese citizen enforcing legal rulings against another Chinese citizen. That is a perfectly valid situation to call the police, in any country. The message getting relayed through a third party (Musescore) doesn't really change it.

Three, this argument is going around in circles, I think a great option would be to contribute to the author's musescore alternative: https://github.com/LibreScore/LibreScore

Re: Audacity Aquired by Muse Group

#152

Post by cbozeman »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #21
wexq wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OSS needs more UI/UX people, and I think Tantacrul is fantastic for this. His twitter ( https://twitter.com/Tantacrul ) and youtube ( https://www.youtube.com/user/martinthekearykid ) are full of interesting tidbits, an you can tell he's passionate about things. Even if you don't do music/notation his video on Sibelius, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKx1wnXClcI , is ridiculously funny, but also on point.

> OSS needs more UI/UX people, and I think Tantacrul is fantastic for this. True, Blender really exploded when they re-designed the interface. I hope someday GIMP team understand that. The software is solid, but the interface isn't great. Some very simple workflow changes made Blender easier to use.

> True, Blender really exploded when they re-designed the interface.

So this must be what happened... over and over I've heard about people switching to Blender now, even many professionals. I tried it many many years ago and found it, quite honestly, awful.

I guess I should download it again and see how things have changed.

Re: Audacity Aquired by Muse Group

#153

Post by mofosyne »

redwall_hp wrote: post #139
mxcrossb wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the problem is that OSS developers hate any change that’s made to a UI because it breaks their workflow. As a result, a lot of OSS has old style interfaces, and it’s hard for UI designers to convince the others to make changes.

Modern "UX" is just a failed premise. It favors hand holding for the novice, which someone won't remain forever, over efficiency and control for the experienced user. "Old style" interfaces are universally better than tabletized crap, and had as much and higher quality research into the choices behind them. It's not limited to OSS. Apple is a glaring example of that right now. The Mac Human Interface Guidelines and t…

Is there perhaps a way to make difficulty level selection sliders like you see in games but for these tools?

Re: Audacity Aquired by Muse Group

#154

Post by ratww »

zxzax wrote: post #151
ratww wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. There are never any excuses for making false accusations, like claiming that a publicly, documented, authenticated, third-party API was being used illegally. There is also no excuse for sending threats of use of physical force by CCP instead of sending a proper DMCA. Even if musescore-downloader was doing illegal things (and I would argue it wasn't, since there was no circumvention of anything), the law should be…

One, it's possible the API was being used illegally. If that's the issue then that should be what's discussed, but let's save that for up thread. Two, the DMCA seems to not apply here, if this is a Chinese citizen enforcing legal rulings against another Chinese citizen. That is a perfectly valid situation to call the police, in any country. The message getting relayed through a third party (Musescore) doesn't really…

Nope. Even if the API were used illegally it still doesn't make it right to make threats of possible usage of physical force. Ask nicely and/or send a DMCA, period.

The DMCA absolutely applies here, since the whole request was for the repository on Github to be removed, and Github is an American website that follows American law and receives DMCA requests.

Re: Audacity Aquired by Muse Group

#156

Post by zxzax »

ratww wrote: post #154
zxzax wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One, it's possible the API was being used illegally. If that's the issue then that should be what's discussed, but let's save that for up thread. Two, the DMCA seems to not apply here, if this is a Chinese citizen enforcing legal rulings against another Chinese citizen. That is a perfectly valid situation to call the police, in any country. The message getting relayed through a third party (Musescore) doesn't really…

Nope. Even if the API were used illegally it still doesn't make it right to make threats of possible usage of physical force. Ask nicely and/or send a DMCA, period. The DMCA absolutely applies here, since the whole request was for the repository on Github to be removed, and Github is an American website that follows American law and receives DMCA requests.

It's my understanding that Github also operates in China and has to follow Chinese law, so that Chinese citizens are allowed to use it. Maybe you can advise on Chinese law? I don't see why it's not right to get the police involved if it turns out to be a criminal matter in China. (Not saying it is, I don't know)

Re: Audacity Aquired by Muse Group

#157

Post by zxzax »

ratww wrote: post #149
zxzax wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are committing crimes in China, the police (i.e. the Chinese government) will find you and stop you. I don't know why this is a point of contention. That is a fact. If the API was protected in any way, the usage can fall under anti-circumvention. That's how the DMCA works. This is also a fact. We can dispute what actually happened, and we can dispute invididual laws in China (or in EU, or the US), but your ass…

Making a program is not illegal, as long as it's not circumventing anything. If it were, SEND A DMCA. FOLLOW THE LAW. The API was public, authenticated, documented and intended for third party developers. Even if it was reverse engineered there is still legal grounds for that, as seen by the YouTube-dl situation. If there was any law-breaking, it would be the people downloading scores and MuseGroup for distributing t…

This may have been an accident where the legal notice was sent out before taking the API offline. If that's the case I agree they messed up. The DMCA may not apply here.

Re: Audacity Aquired by Muse Group

#158

Post by [deleted] »

redwall_hp wrote: post #142
Conan_Kudo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They likely now own the copyrights held by the primary developers and all the trademark rights to the Audacity name and logo.

This is how the Bukkit disaster happened. Microsoft "bought" the leading Minecraft server software, hiring some of the major developers and I guess not telling anyone else, and some of them were unamused that they were (in their eyes) doing free work for Microsoft when their colleagues got hired. So they rescinded their GPL licensing of their contributions and sent DMCA notices. Which pretty much ended the project, e…

[deleted]

Re: Audacity Aquired by Muse Group

#159

Post by nyanpasu64 »

spamalot159 wrote: post #6

My first reaction was "oh no..". Audacity has to be one of the most beloved and widely recommended software of all time. It's not often that an aquisition like this goes well for very long. After looking at MuseScore and UltimateGuitar, however, it looks like they are also free and have a similar aesthetic to Audacity. Maybe this will work out after all.

Possibly relevant, MuseScore has a CLA requiring that all code contributors grant MuseScore the right to use the code in proprietary software. Audacity doesn't have such a clause and I don't know if they'll be able to get past contributors to sign such an agreement.

Re: Audacity Aquired by Muse Group

#160

Post by anaerobicover »

redwall_hp wrote: post #139
mxcrossb wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the problem is that OSS developers hate any change that’s made to a UI because it breaks their workflow. As a result, a lot of OSS has old style interfaces, and it’s hard for UI designers to convince the others to make changes.

Modern "UX" is just a failed premise. It favors hand holding for the novice, which someone won't remain forever, over efficiency and control for the experienced user. "Old style" interfaces are universally better than tabletized crap, and had as much and higher quality research into the choices behind them. It's not limited to OSS. Apple is a glaring example of that right now. The Mac Human Interface Guidelines and t…

Much of OSS UI/UX however does not follow such excellent guidelines, but is rather a kitchen sink, and that does not in truth well serve either power users nor novice. As you are suggesting, the design must have thoughtful work applied.
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