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EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

cnbc.com

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Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#781

Post by simion314 »

dmitriid wrote: post #779
simion314 wrote: post #776

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Just as camera and mic location access is hidden behind a specific permission dialog in case you didn't notice. Of course I know, the hypocrisy is that you trust your grandma with the camera permissions but not with a permission for a music player to run when the screen is turned off or with a map/fitness tracking page to get access to your location. If Apple devs would be competent they could implement it in a secu…

> the hypocrisy is that you trust your grandma with the camera permissions but not with a permission for a music player to run when the screen is turned off or with a map/fitness tracking page to get access to your location. Ah, the tired old "your grandma" "argument". > Dude, Safari is worse then Firefox, stop showing the USB example. Yes, I know. "Apple bad, Safari bad" and no amount of evidence that both Safari an…

Think of the grandma is the Apple fanboys defense of why shit should be locked and approved by Apple.

You are mentioning location APIs and I shown you that is not different then camera APIs and then you still show me the bluttoh/usb stuff. https://www.safari-is-the-new-ie.com

You are trying to defend something I did not ask you about, I don't care is f Safari will never implement JavaScript at all, or if they decide grandma can't be trusted with camera permissions, as long you can install a better browser that gives you access to better APIs.

I also mention for APIs that could let you make a competitive streaming app based in the browser, this is not about USB,bluetooth, VR or other APIs, so try fucking focusing on why you can't have a good music playuer in the browser? Is it impossible by the laws of nature to create such an API? or are the Apple devs incapable of implementing such an API in a safe way? or Apple users too stupid to give permissions , or maybe Apple wants money and a streaming service that is browser based means no tax ?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#782

Post by dmitriid »

simion314 wrote: post #781
dmitriid wrote: post #779

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the hypocrisy is that you trust your grandma with the camera permissions but not with a permission for a music player to run when the screen is turned off or with a map/fitness tracking page to get access to your location. Ah, the tired old "your grandma" "argument". > Dude, Safari is worse then Firefox, stop showing the USB example. Yes, I know. "Apple bad, Safari bad" and no amount of evidence that both Safari an…

Think of the grandma is the Apple fanboys defense of why shit should be locked and approved by Apple. You are mentioning location APIs and I shown you that is not different then camera APIs and then you still show me the bluttoh/usb stuff. https://www.safari-is-the-new-ie.com You are trying to defend something I did not ask you about, I don't care is f Safari will never implement JavaScript at all, or if they decide…

> You are trying to defend something I did not ask you about

> so try fucking focusing

Says the person who completely ignores everything I say, and only goes "Apple bad, Apple bad, Apple bad"

> I don't care

Indeed.

---

I will not engage in this conversation further.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#783

Post by jpttsn »

ThatPlayer wrote: post #737
jpttsn wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That summarizes exactly why I hope this type of legislation doesn’t work out. Today I can trust that any apps I download will use APNS or nothing. Alternatively, a horror show of cheap and broken push implementations from developers who want to save a dime. Consumers would suffer a thousand cuts and the value of the platform would plummet, eventually hurting developers more.

Then Apple can lower the cost and developers won't have to switch to save a dime. Then Apple can keep their platform value. Alternatives means competition. Keeping the value of their platform up is no excuse for anti-competitive practices.

Developers will always choose the cheapest option. Someone will make a “free backup just watch this 30s ad” and people would use that instead of iCloud.

You fetishize competition. I want apple to be allowed to be anti competitive on their own platform. Just like I want to go to Disneyworld and not having to choose between competing companies’ versions of Space Mountain.

The rest of the world outside the walled garden is a competitive market. Once inside the walled garden, we have paid handsomely not to be competed for.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#784

Post by jpttsn »

heavyset_go wrote: post #741
jpttsn wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would Apple agree to this? Is it not morally important that they consent?

> Why would Apple agree to this? Because they're looking down the barrel of antitrust suits. > Is it not morally important that they consent? Is it morally important that they consent to following the law? No, it isn't. Antitrust laws are very clear, and if a company violates them, then they'll face penalties and prosecution.

I disagree. I think this law is immoral.

I think my local warlords are trying to take something someone else made, because they want to feel big, and are happy leave destruction in their wake.

I hope it fails this time.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#785

Post by jpttsn »

eloff wrote: post #740
jpttsn wrote: post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once I’m in he restaurant, it has a monopoly. The same way Apple has a monopoly once I’m in the App Store. Apple is the only seller of apps on my Apple phone. Burger King is the only seller/provider of plates and cutlery at my local Burger King.

The difference is, if you don't like it you can leave the restaurant and choose any other. You have no lock in. Once you've bought an iOS device, you can't buy apps anywhere else. Even if you forget the sunk cost you just have two providers to choose from.

I can always get my next phone from Samsung, just as I can always get my next meal from McDonalds.

But this meal is locked in. If I don’t like the pickles on my whopper, they don’t provide McDonald’s pickles, do they? The don’t allow me to get a McFlurry with my Chicken Sandwich?

Bundling is allowed in every other instance and is key to many great products. Apple can do it too.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#786

Post by simondotau »

simion314 wrote: post #777
simondotau wrote: post #759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has iMessage got to do with anything? Don’t blame Apple because Google’s ten attempts to build an Android messaging platform were all dismal failures. Nothing stopped Google from mimicking iMessage and making that the default SMS app. It’s not a question of who wants Apple to remain the sole gatekeeper of executable binaries, but rather who enjoys the benefits that come from that, even if they don’t explicitly r…

>iMessage Is about your own hypocrisy. Apple is limiting iMessages and is fine with you but the notion that Google would limit the Maps app to their own store makes you mad. It makes sense that you are selfish and don't care about the larger picture Anyway if you could look at the real world and not at the fantasy created by the FUD you would see that on Android there is no Facebook app store and Facebook is stiull p…

> It makes sense that you are selfish

As this is how you choose to converse, I'm no longer interested in discussing this with you.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#787

Post by jpttsn »

perfobotto wrote: post #765
jpttsn wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restaurants sell a bundled experience. The use of their silverware is part of what I buy. You could argue that the restaurant shouldn’t be a gatekeeper. Other parties could let me enjoy a cheaper meal, competing to offer the most discounted silverware. My $10 burger could be $9 if I could rent a paper plate from a third party and eat on the floor. After all, the restaurant shouldn’t abuse it’s monopoly, right?

What are you talking about. A restaurant doesn’t have the power to steer an economy of billions of dollars worldwide (the phone app market) . Apple and google do. Do you understand the risk for countries to allow one single private company to have complete control over the life/jobs of hundreds of thousands of citizens (app developers) that could be just destroyed by the whim of one of these two companies? It’s the p…

I don’t feel entitled to controlling any company unless I own stock.

If I build my career on a supplier company I don’t control, that’s my problem.

EU politicians seem to disagree. Mostly (I bet) to protect their own.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#788

Post by jpttsn »

michaelmrose wrote: post #752
jpttsn wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restaurants sell a bundled experience. The use of their silverware is part of what I buy. You could argue that the restaurant shouldn’t be a gatekeeper. Other parties could let me enjoy a cheaper meal, competing to offer the most discounted silverware. My $10 burger could be $9 if I could rent a paper plate from a third party and eat on the floor. After all, the restaurant shouldn’t abuse it’s monopoly, right?

People who choose to do business by selling a phone or opening a restaurant choose to do so within the context of the rules and regulations that society imposes on businesses of their sort. If they or society don't like the current rules they are free to lobby congress. There isn't any inherently correct answer just a variety of possible answers with various outlooks for many parties. I don't think anyone regards a r…

Well put.

Apple runs a store, not a market. This is the key distinction to my mind. In a store I expect curation and payola. On a market I expect independent hagglers.

I imagine if Plateify, a hot startup from the EU, wanted to get into the American Burger King “plate market”, they could get all sort of different attention from lawmakers.

Anyway, where’s the line to a “sub market”? If it’s the soda brand that goes with your burger? Should consumers always be able to get Pepsi cheaper than Coke? The whole reasoning is complex and arbitrary. I’d much rather just let companies decide what they want to bundle and unbundle.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#789

Post by ericmay »

simion314 wrote: post #637
ericmay wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Apple doesn't like the EU's rules why not just stop doing business there? What rules? These are proposals for rules, and also lawsuits. There are arguments that have merit on both sides. But yea sure, if it was me and I were Tim Cook and had unlimited authority and the E.U. made Apple open up to 3rd party App Stores I'd pull the iPhone from Europe. Bad business decision most likely, but principled at least. Inst…

>Bad business decision most likely, but principled at least. Are you trolling? Apple and principles ? They are giving Chinese customers information to the government and do bussiness with Saudi Arabia that would execute all those gay Apple executives if they could, are this principles??? Or you mean "Ferengi principles"

I said it’s what I would do and that what I would do would be out of principle. Not what Apple will do.

The E.U. Happily bows down to China all the time so if you really want to do this whole anti-China thing everybody is happily playing in the mud - Apple, and the E.U. .

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#790

Post by ericmay »

simion314 wrote: post #745
ericmay wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or if it bothers you so much just don’t buy one. You don’t speak for the entire E.U.

>Or if it bothers you so much just don’t buy one. You don’t speak for the entire E.U. Ha ha, laws don't work like that. I am speaking my opinion and it seems I am not the only one that can see past the Apple giant PR. But if you are from EU you are free not to unlock your device or buy the US cooler version. What you are not free is to demand EU to not apply the existing laws for Apple because Apple is cool but apply…

Hopefully Apple wins the legal challenges or finds a good work around instead.
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