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“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

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Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#841

Post by predaking »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #744
acjohnson55 wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This pretty much nails it. The "politics" angle has been revealed to be a red herring by the subsequent accounts of everyone involved. The same contentious discussions would have happened had this policy already existed! I guess you could say the policy gives the founders a ban hammer to swing to end discussions they don't like. Separated from their justification, the 6 policies represent an assertion that Basecamp l…

> you lose 1/3 of your staff in a week over an ego trip That's how you see it. Many other people do not see it in such a poor light.

And many other people do see it as such. What are we gaining from pointing out there are many people seeing it in both ways? =)

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#844

Post by antihero »

andkon wrote: post #262
ipaddr wrote: post #152

Interestingly the employees who left have the best career prospects. Entire iOS team, head of marketing and head of product team. The 6 months free money is hard for anyone entering a strong job market to pass up. A lot of comments seem to think 1/3 left because of the no politics policy. 1 / 3 left because it would increase their wealth or give them the summer covid took away last year. How many people would leave y…

One of their iOS devs who left has been incredibly vocal about how he no longer felt like this was somewhere he could work because of this policy and its effects, so I think you're plainly wrong (or insisting that there's no way we could take a person at their word). https://twitter.com/georgeclaghorn It's a lot more likely that the 1/3rd that left both left because they were unhappy with the policy, and because they…

> a new job hunt takes 3

Where is this? At Senior level in London it can take days once you're good and ready.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#845

Post by predaking »

randomsearch wrote: post #832
predaking wrote: post #635

For me, here's a common thread going through everything that's happened to Basecamp in the last several days and in laser focus today. Today 1/3rd of the employees left Basecamp. Also today: DHH is back to tweeting and fighting with Apple like nothing of note happened and it's just another day. The original situation that sparked everything was brought about largely by dismissive and irresponsible leadership that dis…

I noticed this too, but I couldn't imagine what dhh could post about this that wouldn't add fuel to the fire and enrage some more people. What would you post if you were dhh?

So to preface this response a bit...I don't know that for me as a leader, it should or would be about adding fuel to the fire or enraging more people; if I'm DHH, it's not the feelings of Twitter that I'm concerned with today*, it's the feelings of the people who have left my company.

My top answer here would be "nothing". =) Several hours after 1/3rd of your workforce leaves isn't the time to start going after Apple again like nothing of note happened.

Hypothetically (and this is off the cuff) if I had no choice but** to post something on Hey or Twitter - it would be something to the effect of:

"You've likely heard that a large number of people left Basecamp today. They were very talented people, great contributors, and I want to thank all of them for contributing to this company.

I still strongly believe in the changes we are making, but I respect that the people who have left today don't agree with those changes and have exercised the option to leave. As promised we have provided them with 3-6 month severance packages and wish them all the best in the future."

Again, I think the best thing would have been for David to have been quiet today instead of going on a blocking spree and posting about cancel culture the night before the all-hands; but at least this statement would indicate some degree of respect for the people that had given a lot of their time to Basecamp.

* and clearly from his rampant blocking behavior (to the point that "dhh block" is the second autocomplete suggestion of twitter), he definitely cares a bit too much about it today ;)

** again, there's always a choice =) Some of the best advice I ever received was "Before you hit send, sleep for at least 8 hours."

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#846

Post by runarberg »

spyckie2 wrote: post #642
ipaddr wrote: post #152

Interestingly the employees who left have the best career prospects. Entire iOS team, head of marketing and head of product team. The 6 months free money is hard for anyone entering a strong job market to pass up. A lot of comments seem to think 1/3 left because of the no politics policy. 1 / 3 left because it would increase their wealth or give them the summer covid took away last year. How many people would leave y…

Yes, people are reacting to the policy. But it's definitely that the policy is a reaction to something as well. Probably, the founders believed that the toxicity of the internal culture had reached a point where it was extremely detrimental to the workplace. And, knowing DHH, it was probably not only a financial decision but a lifestyle one. He may have realized that the advocates that actively discussed and promoted…

I disagree, this reeks of cheap solutions and ill thought HR managements.

To me banning politics from company chat feels vague and confusing at best. Another post from a few days ago got this from a worker[1]:

> “How do you talk about raising kids without talking about society?” the employee said. “As soon as I bring up public schools, then it’s already political.”

At worst it feels like you are being silenced. In technology topics of diversity and inclusion tend towards the political (it doesn’t have to be; but it most often is as witnessed on HN). Does this mean if you feel like the company is not being inclusive that you cannot speak up?

Tonnes of companies deal with issues like these in a better way IMO. Options include a code of conduct which prohibits escalating emotions in a political debate (i.e. by talking about genocide) while allowing (and even encouraging) talks about DE&I. Reprimand people that are found to use hostile language in public forums. Provide channels (echo chambers) where people can opt into and have a more heated debates (without breaking the CoC). Etc.

1: https://www.platformer.news/p/-what-really-happened-at-basec...

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#847

Post by [deleted] »

rusty-rust wrote: post #836
ipaddr wrote: post #152

Interestingly the employees who left have the best career prospects. Entire iOS team, head of marketing and head of product team. The 6 months free money is hard for anyone entering a strong job market to pass up. A lot of comments seem to think 1/3 left because of the no politics policy. 1 / 3 left because it would increase their wealth or give them the summer covid took away last year. How many people would leave y…

Many of the comments in this thread appear to be missing the context of what has happening at Basecamp. From the Verge; > While Basecamp does not publish diversity statistics, it is still, like most tech companies, majority white and male, employees said. But the idea of worker-led efforts on diversity issues got a frosty reception from the founders last year, employees told me. They were allowed to work on the proje…

[deleted]

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#848

Post by lelanthran »

andkon wrote: post #262
ipaddr wrote: post #152

Interestingly the employees who left have the best career prospects. Entire iOS team, head of marketing and head of product team. The 6 months free money is hard for anyone entering a strong job market to pass up. A lot of comments seem to think 1/3 left because of the no politics policy. 1 / 3 left because it would increase their wealth or give them the summer covid took away last year. How many people would leave y…

One of their iOS devs who left has been incredibly vocal about how he no longer felt like this was somewhere he could work because of this policy and its effects, so I think you're plainly wrong (or insisting that there's no way we could take a person at their word). https://twitter.com/georgeclaghorn It's a lot more likely that the 1/3rd that left both left because they were unhappy with the policy, and because they…

> 6 months free money is not as much as you'd think; a new job hunt takes 3, even for talented, in-demand people.

If you're a developer, that's enough runway to launch a side-business. After all, job-searching is hardly time-consuming (it takes so little time that people do it while already employed in a full-time position).

Yeah, some folk will sit at home binge-watching netflix for 6 months. I can all but guarantee you that I will have a product at the end of six months if I was unemployed for six months.

At the end of the time I'll have a new job and a product (whether the product actually makes money or not is irrelevant. Getting a product to sell is the first step).

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#849

Post by nailer »

gifnamething wrote: post #580
coldtea wrote: post #331

It's sad that the target for those employees' "political disruption" is Basecamp. One of the arguably nicest companies to work in, which treats employees well, has a sane work/life balance and advocates so, pays well, embraces remote work, gives back to open source (RoR, etc.), and has good products, with no shady anti-consumer practices, that people actually like and pay for (as opposed to somewhere where they sell…

Management took a stance against the employees. Management cancelled their employees, removing their platform to talk about internal politics. Framing this as 'these people' vs Basecamp is ludicrous. It's 1/3 or more of Basecamp vs. Basecamp's management. Important people in important roles, entire teams. They are this company. Or were.

They took a stance against bad behaviour by some employees. No stance was taken against employees.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#850

Post by tilolebo »

reachtarunhere wrote: post #176
klelatti wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really sounds like JF / DHH really didn't want to have to deal with the issue - minimal disciplinary action and then push all discussion away from official channels. But I guess that it reveals what probably should have been clear about Basecamp - it's a vehicle for the expression / gratification of the founders - financially, emotionally and intellectually. And the loss of staff / possible impact on the company (…

I don't see any issue with that. They get their gratification and the employees get paid for providing their work as a service.

Then you are for sure not familiar with the way Basecamp has been advertising itself as a company for the past decade.
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