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It's your device, you should be able to repair it

bbc.com

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Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#471

Post by porknubbins »

devoutsalsa wrote: post #284
nousermane wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can choose to forgo owning stuff personally, sure. But that is not everybody's preference. And please don't pretend that "devices aren't built around discrete components anymore". There are plenty of discrete components in a modern phone/laptop/roomba/whatever, that could be replaceable/upgradable by advanced user or entry-level technician, but are not: - battery - screen - storage - RAM - list goes on and on...

A big reason that stuff isn't replaceable anymore is because consumers wants some of the benefits that come w/ non-replaceable parts. For example, it's nice that I can drop my iPhone in water w/o worrying (too much) about destroying it. I spent ~$1500 on an iPhone 12 Pro in November & dropped it in a lake in December. Part of the reason it's (more) waterproof if because it's not covered w/ ports/hatches/openings that…

Except for the battery I don’t think those things have ever really been user swappable though. The issue with water protection on phones I have worked on is that its hard to maintain when removing the screen because it tends to stick. I guess you could always buy a new gasket which is probably what the Apple store does.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#472

Post by ben-schaaf »

Proven wrote: post #138

Nonsense. Yes, you may repair it if you want, that's never been the issue. But then don't come back asking for free service or free replacement parts when you can't fix it or when it breaks next time. The manufacturer has no moral or other obligation to provide help, info or assistance beyond conditions under which I've sold the device or equipment. If you don't like a deal, find yourself a better one.

> Yes, you may repair it if you want, that's never been the issue.

The problem is precisely that you can't repair it even with all the skill in the world, because the schematics aren't documented, the components aren't for sale and the components are software locked to the device. That's what right to repair is. Just like you can repair your own car by buying the components and doing the work yourself you should be allowed to do this for everything you buy. No one is asking manufacturers to repair your device for free or give you components for free.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#473

Post by gsich »

devoutsalsa wrote: post #284
nousermane wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can choose to forgo owning stuff personally, sure. But that is not everybody's preference. And please don't pretend that "devices aren't built around discrete components anymore". There are plenty of discrete components in a modern phone/laptop/roomba/whatever, that could be replaceable/upgradable by advanced user or entry-level technician, but are not: - battery - screen - storage - RAM - list goes on and on...

A big reason that stuff isn't replaceable anymore is because consumers wants some of the benefits that come w/ non-replaceable parts. For example, it's nice that I can drop my iPhone in water w/o worrying (too much) about destroying it. I spent ~$1500 on an iPhone 12 Pro in November & dropped it in a lake in December. Part of the reason it's (more) waterproof if because it's not covered w/ ports/hatches/openings that…

You can have a replacable battery and be waterproof.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#474

Post by tsejerome97 »

JoshTko wrote: post #122
leoedin wrote: post #53

PCs and even most laptops have been very repairable for decades. You can still run Windows or Linux on a 10+ (20+?) year old laptop without an issue. The idea that a 5 year old laptop would be unusable or not get the latest version of Windows is unacceptable. Yet phones cost similar amounts and have nowhere near the repairability. A decade ago you could argue that it wasn't that important - specs were changing so qui…

The trend for lack of reparability in smartphones is because of consumer preferences. Consumers are consistently choosing devices that are smaller, lighter, higher durability, waterproof, cheaper etc. vs. devices that are more repairable that do not have those features.

meanwhile phone screen are larger nowadays

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#475

Post by darren_ »

zepto wrote: post #48
qzw wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t the underlying issue planned obsolescence as a business model? It’s anti-consumer and anti-environment, and maybe we shouldn’t incentivize it as a planet.

The problem is that planned obsolescence is not in fact everyone’s business model. Apple’s penetration into the US market is not because the iPhone matches Android in terms of sales, it’s because iPhones last longer and get handed down or resold. Apple literally continues to sell years old devices. That isn’t planned obsolescence. A really simple step in the right direction would be mandated labeling showing how many…

> A really simple step in the right direction would be mandated labeling showing how many years of software updates the device will get and statistical expected lifetime.

This isn't that simple because it depends on _which_ software. This gets glossed over a lot in these discussions.

An iPhone gets ~5 years of iOS updates. Importantly, these updates are the only place where the only permitted web viewer on the platform gets updated. An android phone gets 2-3 years, if it's very lucky, of android updates. However, the _browser_ you use on that device is updated entirely independently of the OS, and while it isn't obvious how far back Chrome supports, android Firefox runs on android 5.0 devices (i.e. at least 7 years, probably more?)

These are two different security scenarios - an iOS device is fully patched against OS-level exploits for longer. True. But an android device will have a safer browser for a lot longer. In my threat model the latter is a lot more important - I don't think I'm unusual in that my web browser is by far my largest attack surface.

(disclaimer: i work at google, but i work on iOS stuff and like iOS a lot. more than android for sure. but i'm very salty that i can't have a browser updated independently from the OS)

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#476

Post by scientismer »

joshspankit wrote: post #451
scientismer wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless your country goes full socialism and there is only the government as provider for all those things, competing companies can provide you with repairable products. If people actually want them (which I doubt), why shouldn't companies provide them? With the tractors and DSLRs, again, if you don't like their licensing model, don't buy them. If nobody buys them, they will probably change their licensing model.

It's more complicated than that and is threatening to get even more complicated. Companies continue to grow larger than countries in both cash flow and influence.

That may be so, but you can still buy from the competition.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#477

Post by scientismer »

michaelmrose wrote: post #456
scientismer wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Average spend has of course gone down - you can get the same computer you would have gotten 10 years ago for a lot cheaper now. Computers have gotten a lot faster, that is why "spend" has kept up. And you seem to suggest that early smartphones were already as fast as an M1, because they were "systems on a chip". That is not the case. Not all SoCs are the same, more and more things have been integrated over time. And…

You said computers not phones. More power for less money is massively overwhelmingly driven by being able to fit more transistors in the same size wafer due to modern processes not integration as you suggest. >And you seem to suggest that early smartphones were already as fast as an M1, because they were "systems on a chip" I never suggested anything of the sort. My point is that smartphones have always been integrat…

You brought up smartphones for comparison.

The M1 is so fast and efficient because it combines even more stuff on a single chip.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#479

Post by fsflover »

zepto wrote: post #404
fsflover wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Security issues are found in browsers every day. You get no updates anymore and you are not allowed to update yourself. If you care about (not) leaking any of your data, this is effectively a brick.

> They effectively become bricks. In other words this was complete bullshit. It’s true that older devices are less capable than newer ones, and you might not want to browse on an old device. But they aren’t bricks.

> older devices are less capable than newer ones

Understatement of the year concerning unsupported, insecure and (unreasonably) locked Apple devices.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#480

Post by fsflover »

zepto wrote: post #407
fsflover wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not speaking about making updates. I am speaking about preventing users from making them.

You know the answer to that - it prevent large classes of social engineering attack and is part of the overall security model.

Even when the device is no longer supported?
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