“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today” • Hacker News Board

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#791

Post by dlp211 » Sat, May 01, 2021, 5:21 AM UTC

chubbyish wrote: post #575

grumblestumble wrote: post #89

A lot of the conversation from the "no politics at work" crowd here is centered around "these folks were wasting company time and losing productivity protesting this". That entirely misses the point. The loss of productivity around this issue is entirely on the leadership team. They let this fester - they were complicit in allowing this dumb-ass list to be circulated around the company for years, and when it became a…

Everyone has laughed at these kinds of jokes. Also, if someone had a funny name and they went against progressive politics, then they would be laughing about it. How about all the Donald Drumpf stuff from Oliver. It puzzles me what progressives actually do laugh at when so much is forbidden and everything is somehow insensitive. Most likely is that they are all just hypocrites.

The difference is punching up versus punching down.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#792

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 01, 2021, 5:29 AM UTC

libraryatnight wrote: post #766

midrus wrote: post #729

As an European. I don't get this. So, employees create a list for making fun of people. Employees start to fight each other because they take offense. Company states at work, you're supposed to work, not to discuss politics. Th bad actor is the company so we all leave. (??!!!) Honestly, I don't get it. I think it is a cultural thing in the US, due to the long term racism issues ,etc. And how extremely easy is for Ame…

You completely omit the company's actual response. If the company had shut down the list as being unprofessional and that "work is for work" we wouldn't be here. So I don't really get your point. Are you saying in the EU that if such a list were circulating, the business would take a stance that the list has a place in the workplace? That seems to contradict your statement that "work is for work" And, honestly, mocki…

[deleted]

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#793

Post by busterarm » Sat, May 01, 2021, 5:43 AM UTC

austhrow743 wrote: post #650

grey-area wrote: post #479

I don't think this is really about making fun of people's names, or holocaust references. It's about power. The managers at basecamp were unhappy that their employees asserted power over them in the workplace, and decided to assert their own power in turn over what they view as their personal fiefdom and retract some of the freedoms they had so graciously granted their workers, because those ungrateful workers actual…

>At least 1/3 of the staff, when confronted with their true relations with their management, then decided to quit. At least 1/3 of staff, when offered either 3 or 6 months of salary just for switching employers, accepted it. I feel like you'd get similar rates, potentially higher, at any employer recent incident or not. If you have the career power to quickly slot in to an equivalent job elsewhere, you just cut years…

Given how much higher Basecamp pays than almost the entire rest of the industry, it's extremely likely that most of these staffers will be taking a significant pay cut.

Remember, Basecamp pays the 90th percentile of San Francisco rates + profit sharing kickbacks for a company that's fully remote. Regardless of position.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#794

Post by busterarm » Sat, May 01, 2021, 5:48 AM UTC

overgard wrote: post #780

spyckie2 wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, people are reacting to the policy. But it's definitely that the policy is a reaction to something as well. Probably, the founders believed that the toxicity of the internal culture had reached a point where it was extremely detrimental to the workplace. And, knowing DHH, it was probably not only a financial decision but a lifestyle one. He may have realized that the advocates that actively discussed and promoted…

Yeah, honestly this seems like addition by subtraction. The last thing I would want at work is to navigate around ultra-sensitive trigger-warning micro-aggression seeking activists. Not that all the people leaving were that, but it sure sounds like a lot were. At work I just want professionalism and respectful behavior, along with people that have moderately thick skin and don't seek to find offense everywhere.

Given how Basecamp is known to pay, they're going to attract a significant amount of top talent that is already aligned with the new culture.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#795

Post by asien » Sat, May 01, 2021, 5:52 AM UTC

redisman wrote: post #727

nell wrote: post #514

30% of basecamp employees left → 70% stayed in spite of the 6-month severance. I think everyone should evaluate if the company we worked for offered a 6-month severance how many would stay?

Not bad right? If you’re very employable it’s just a free 50% annual bonus

> If you’re very employable it’s just a free 50% annual bonus

I’ve seen comments on HN going the opposite way , but let’s be honest for a minute : most of them will find work within less then a month.

We are looking at top talents from SV with years of experience as iOS engineers / executive those talents are hard to find and quiet rare regardless of the pandemic or not.

Honestly it’s just free money , I won’t deny the emotional aspect that may take time to recover but outside of that they’ll have no problem finding new jobs in the comings weeks.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#796

Post by gigatexal » Sat, May 01, 2021, 5:53 AM UTC

grey-area wrote: post #479

I don't think this is really about making fun of people's names, or holocaust references. It's about power. The managers at basecamp were unhappy that their employees asserted power over them in the workplace, and decided to assert their own power in turn over what they view as their personal fiefdom and retract some of the freedoms they had so graciously granted their workers, because those ungrateful workers actual…

The Casey Newton verge article goes into how they disbanded a Diversity and Inclusion committee. How boneheaded does DHH have to be to think that was a good idea? Your employees want to feel accepted and safe. Like it or not the demographic of work is changing and people are becoming more accepting and are wishing their workplaces do the same.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#797

Post by angry_octet » Sat, May 01, 2021, 6:00 AM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #793

austhrow743 wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At least 1/3 of the staff, when confronted with their true relations with their management, then decided to quit. At least 1/3 of staff, when offered either 3 or 6 months of salary just for switching employers, accepted it. I feel like you'd get similar rates, potentially higher, at any employer recent incident or not. If you have the career power to quickly slot in to an equivalent job elsewhere, you just cut years…

Given how much higher Basecamp pays than almost the entire rest of the industry, it's extremely likely that most of these staffers will be taking a significant pay cut. Remember, Basecamp pays the 90th percentile of San Francisco rates + profit sharing kickbacks for a company that's fully remote. Regardless of position.

As I understand it, no stock though. There is no potential that you would, via Hey, be able to cash out. (And frankly, I can't see the technical or user appeal of Hey, it seems very bleh. I'd rather work on Signal any day.)

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#798

Post by majani » Sat, May 01, 2021, 6:11 AM UTC

pochamago wrote: post #203

baron816 wrote: post #181

What I think is lost in the conversation here is that people don’t really have organizations they can go to to advocate their political positions. People have their families, their jobs, and maybe a couple of friends and that’s about it. They need an outlet to push the ideas and causes they care about. The workplace is one of the few places where they can feel like they’re having an impact, but that’s not really appr…

I think for the people who are so passionate they can't imagine not engaging with politics at work should look for careers in NGOs. I don't feel any disdain for activists, I just don't really want to work with them, and I think we'd both be happier if they were engaged in work that had first order effects on their beliefs instead of second or third

Or a job in actual politics

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#799

Post by lifeformed » Sat, May 01, 2021, 6:13 AM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #152

Interestingly the employees who left have the best career prospects. Entire iOS team, head of marketing and head of product team. The 6 months free money is hard for anyone entering a strong job market to pass up. A lot of comments seem to think 1/3 left because of the no politics policy. 1 / 3 left because it would increase their wealth or give them the summer covid took away last year. How many people would leave y…

I mean it doesn't have to be one reason. Like all big decisions, there's lots of factors involved, some weighed more heavily than others. Maybe for one person, money is worth 10 points, policy worth 5, and a new job prospect is worth 3.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#800

Post by gls2ro » Sat, May 01, 2021, 6:14 AM UTC

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #709

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 6 months free money is hard for anyone entering a strong job market to pass up. Surely some of the employees left for ideological reasons, but 6 months of salary just for changing jobs is a difficult incentive to ignore. Anyone who was considering changing jobs would have a hard time saying no to 6 months of free pay. The publicity of this situation also makes them attractive targets for other companies looking…

At least half the people I know would immediately give up their job for no other reason than 6 months of salary.

At the level of compensation from Basecamp (at least what they say) it would be very easy to do that in 1 year: just put aside 50% of salary each month and you will have full 6 months of salary or (as you already lived on 50%) you will have one year of half salary to take time off.

Of course putting 50% aside is huge but I think 20% is achievable and will still create in one year a couple of months to live without a job.

I find myself sometimes hearing people saying things like this “if my company will give me X salaries I will leave” but few will actually do it. I always push back saying how about in the next 6 months you put aside some money and take 1 month unpaid vacation. I listen the arguments why they will not do it and realise people say will leave job if compensated but mostly they dont walk the talk as there are other risks/loans/friends/promises that keeps them there.