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“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

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Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#671

What I think is lost in the conversation here is that people don’t really have organizations they can go to to advocate their political positions. People have their families, their jobs, and maybe a couple of friends and that’s about it. They need an outlet to push the ideas and causes they care about. The workplace is one of the few places where they can feel like they’re having an impact, but that’s not really appr…

When I see a Jehovah’s Witness coming up to my door, I pretend to not be home. I’d really hate to be forced to have that same feeling at work, but be unable to escape it. If you can’t do your job without evangelizing your coworkers in some form or fashion, maybe you should reconsider your career choices.

You are halfway there, but now think a bit further. Imagine if you were working at a job, but you are stuck with immature coworkers that are making fun of aspects of your culture, making fun of names that are similar to your own name, or similar to names of your friends and family.

You can't escape these immature people because you need to work the job with them in order to make money. So you deal with it for a while but then you start complaining "hey man that's really not cool". They don't take you seriously, in fact their response is "hey let's not get all political about this".

Don't you see how people making racist jokes can be just as annoying as a pushy religious person? There's a lot of ways humans do annoying things to each other, but we should all be working on ways to minimize the amount we are annoying each other, and sometimes that means facing up to the fact that something you are doing is racist towards another person and you have to stop it.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think people in charge of hiring, particularly outside of the SV bubble, are going to be eager to pick someone up who left their last job because they couldn't agree to stop bitching about politics on the company dime? I don't see how demonstrating the inability to follow basic company rules in the interest of productivity improves their career prospects. Even inside the SV bubble, things aren't that warped, a…

> ... someone up who left their last job because they couldn't agree to stop bitching about politics on the company dime? I don't see how demonstrating the inability to follow basic company rules in the interest of productivity improves their career prospects. Exactly. These didn't use to have to be rules -- it was simply part of Professionalism and social courtesy. That wasn't that long ago, it seems.

I'd say it'sa new union topic. Employers need to start worrying about what political opinions they are lobbying for, and what their employees want them to be lobbying for.

Corporate lobbying is going to stop just being for the owners

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#673
If basecamp employees are so desperate to talk about politics at work, maybe they should work in Washington DC or something? Seems like a lot of drama over nothing.

Also, who would turn down 6 months of free money while they get a higher paying job?

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. It’s about professionalism. Flame wars at work create a hostile environment where quiet voices are silenced. It’s the same reason HN bans political flame wars.

  Edit: I was too aggressive, have rephrased in grandchild comment.

Part of what makes HN great is the good faith, respectful discussions. Please stick to issues rather than personal attacks. If you disagree with my opinions I welcome a debate in the ideas. I am a leader with responsibility for a large team. These issues are complicated and warrant thoughtful debate.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#675
post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think people in charge of hiring, particularly outside of the SV bubble, are going to be eager to pick someone up who left their last job because they couldn't agree to stop bitching about politics on the company dime? I don't see how demonstrating the inability to follow basic company rules in the interest of productivity improves their career prospects. Even inside the SV bubble, things aren't that warped, a…

I agree that their behaviour hurts their career prospects. But I'm not sure if they agree. Many might think that the public at large is on their side and what they did looks good from the outside. This might be objectively false, but this belief would nevertheless encourage them to take the 6 months free money and leave.

I wouldn't imagine it does.

They can probably still make a fizzbuzz, which puts them far above most candidates

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#676
post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think people in charge of hiring, particularly outside of the SV bubble, are going to be eager to pick someone up who left their last job because they couldn't agree to stop bitching about politics on the company dime? I don't see how demonstrating the inability to follow basic company rules in the interest of productivity improves their career prospects. Even inside the SV bubble, things aren't that warped, a…

The company banned talking politics on the work server, not talking politics on personal accounts, even on the company dime.

If you needed to report a neo-nazi to hr, would that involve the work server?

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#677
post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This pretty much nails it. The "politics" angle has been revealed to be a red herring by the subsequent accounts of everyone involved. The same contentious discussions would have happened had this policy already existed! I guess you could say the policy gives the founders a ban hammer to swing to end discussions they don't like. Separated from their justification, the 6 policies represent an assertion that Basecamp l…

1/3 of the staff that believes in things like that the “It doesn’t have to be crazy at work” title is ableist (see the Jane Yang post). Even when refers to a situation and not to a person. How radicalized you have to be to lose your capacity for critical thinking like that? If anything, Basecamp is a much better place to work now, without them

> toxic people.

I continue to be amazed how strong the options of people who have no real insight into any of this continue to be.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#678
They just lost all their employees that aren’t forced to stay to pay their bills because they can’t find work elsewhere. They cut loose their best employees.

I don’t want to coddle anyone into my position, please censor politics in your business so that mine can succeed by seeing around corners your company can't.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#679
post #152

Interestingly the employees who left have the best career prospects. Entire iOS team, head of marketing and head of product team. The 6 months free money is hard for anyone entering a strong job market to pass up. A lot of comments seem to think 1/3 left because of the no politics policy. 1 / 3 left because it would increase their wealth or give them the summer covid took away last year. How many people would leave y…

I think it would depend on how much I liked my job. My sense is that DHH is just a terrible boss. Note the "changes" [1] are not just "no politics" but also "no more committees" (of any kind at all; that is, no authority or responsibility except individually along line-of-report hieararchy), no more 360 degree reviews (no way to formally give feedback to your boss), and no more bringing up past decisions you disagree…

>no more 360 degree reviews (no way to formally give feedback to your boss)

The reason they gave for removing these was that peer reviews were overly positive to the point of pointlessness. You could still give feedback to your boss without 360 degree reviews.

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