Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

721–730 of 825 posts

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#721

Post by jpttsn »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #409
darkwizard42 wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But is the work of the app store flat fee for an app? I think if you have a massive userbase and drop an update etc. this requires way more of Apple's resources to keep up with, it should probably be a sliding scale right?

You still don't end up at "percent of revenues" but rather some kind of AWS-like bandwidth charge for distribution. Which the developer should be able to opt out of by self-hosting.

Should they also be able to opt out of the font stack Apple licensed, and bring their own free font garbage?

Opt out of the battery controller and encryption libraries, to roll their own for cheap?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#722

Post by fastball »

nodamage wrote: post #697
fastball wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, have you ever developed an application for iOS? Because it doesn't sound like it, as this is not how it works. Apps are sandboxed. In order to access certain features, they need to request permission from the operating system. e.g. there is a GPS chip in your iPhone. Apps, through the design of the OS (not the App Store), are unable to access the raw data coming from this unit themselves. Instea…

I have done mobile development (both iOS and Android) for a long time and am well aware how sandboxing works. You've misunderstood the issue if you think sandboxing sufficiently solves this problem. Let me flip the question, are you aware what types of data apps collect in order to fingerprint a device? These are the same low level APIs that apps need for legitimate purposes, you can't simply disable them or put a pe…

Yes, I am very aware of what types of data apps collect in order to fingerprint a device. That is exactly why I firmly believe this problem should be solved at the OS level, not at the App Store level. Because I trust a technological solutions much more than I trust App Store reviewers at Apple.

This is why I prefer an E2EE chat service to a service that is not but says "we promise we won't read your messages".

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#723

Post by sixstringtheory »

tolmasky wrote: post #696
sixstringtheory wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HKMap.live is an app that Apple took down to appease China. The AppStore creates a single point of failure for nations to target and cut off. Most people here think it was pretty shitty to remove that app while Hong Kongers were fighting for a voice. China has the great firewall. I'm not an expert on it, but I assume whether Apple allows alternative app stores is entirely beside the point of whether people in HK wo…

> China has the great firewall. I'm not an expert on it, but I assume whether Apple allows alternative app stores is entirely beside the point of whether people in HK would be able to download and use a networked app. The HKMap.live situation happened before the Chinese Firewall was in place in Hong Kong (2019), so that's really not an excuse. Regardless, the great firewall doesn't necessarily prevent person-to-perso…

I'm not here to argue on the fine points of China policy or human rights. I just don't think it's fair to conflate the decisions one company makes towards what it thinks are good for engineering or business with every possible outcome of those decisions or how others can exploit them. Similarly, I don't accept arguments against socialism because of the trainwrecks from the past that have claimed to be socialist.

And yes, when presented with a wall of text consisting of mostly emotional arguments talking past my points, I started skimming.

Finally, you really shouldn't stoop to ad-hominem like you did at the end of your post. You have no idea who I am or my life experience, and even if you did, it's still not a valid argument regardless of my circumstances. Try to be less sanctimonious.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#724

Post by jpttsn »

username90 wrote: post #714
jpttsn wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you think of any situation where bundling would be acceptable? Should e.g. a restaurant have to provide an open market for silverware providers?

Restaurants doesn't sell silverware. And even if they did they wouldn't have 10% of EU as customers. EU puts their anti trust laws for marketplaces at 10% instead of defining it as a monopoly, at that size you have to play fair.

Restaurants sell a bundled experience. The use of their silverware is part of what I buy.

You could argue that the restaurant shouldn’t be a gatekeeper. Other parties could let me enjoy a cheaper meal, competing to offer the most discounted silverware. My $10 burger could be $9 if I could rent a paper plate from a third party and eat on the floor. After all, the restaurant shouldn’t abuse it’s monopoly, right?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#725

Post by shuckles »

username90 wrote: post #688
shuckles wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s really unclear what your point is or how you are engaging with my question about accounting for the “costs” of running the 2nd most successful application platform in history, after the web. It is undoubtedly much higher than the cost of running a store, but how much? iPhone gross margins are about 35%. Even if it was a loss leader, $350 for five years of iOS is obviously underpriced, so I’m not sure what you me…

> $350 for five years of iOS is obviously underpriced No it isn't, windows is much cheaper than that.

Every major release of Windows costs over $100, and iOS has a major release annually. Trying to compare iOS and Windows without any adjustments whatsoever is almost comical.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#726

Post by LatteLazy »

ziml77 wrote: post #488
LatteLazy wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue here is that Spotify can easily pay 10k for being listed despite making billions. Meanwhile anyone making freeware, open source or small apps and just trying to get started is fucked.

But what if you're selling content that you aren't making more than 30% profit on? There's flaws for both flat and percent. Something more nuanced might be required.

What if my revenue won't pay the rent?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#727

Post by eloff »

jpttsn wrote: post #724
username90 wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restaurants doesn't sell silverware. And even if they did they wouldn't have 10% of EU as customers. EU puts their anti trust laws for marketplaces at 10% instead of defining it as a monopoly, at that size you have to play fair.

Restaurants sell a bundled experience. The use of their silverware is part of what I buy. You could argue that the restaurant shouldn’t be a gatekeeper. Other parties could let me enjoy a cheaper meal, competing to offer the most discounted silverware. My $10 burger could be $9 if I could rent a paper plate from a third party and eat on the floor. After all, the restaurant shouldn’t abuse it’s monopoly, right?

It doesn't have a monopoly. Now if one restaurant chain controlled 50% of the market, suddenly you've got good reason to treat them as a platform and regulate them accordingly.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#728

Post by Dma54rhs »

Sebb767 wrote: post #604
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't remotely equivalent or comparable. First, you're free to choose other forms of payment. Visa isn't holding a gun to your head. I know many sellers simply adjust their prices if you're paying credit -- see almost every gas station in the US. You can't do that with Apple. Second, the fees actually benefit the customer. They're there to protect the customer from fraud, and to provide perks. I have no idea how…

> First, you're free to choose other forms of payment. Visa isn't holding a gun to your head. And you're free to choose another phone vendor. Apple isn't holding a gun to your head. > I know many sellers simply adjust their prices if you're paying credit -- see almost every gas station in the US. You can't do that with Apple. You can't do that with PayPal, either. > I have no idea how I benefit from Apple's fees. Ser…

And you're free to use another ISP or start digging your own Fibre cables. The duopoly has extreme power over our lines and the impact is just like with utilities.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#729

Post by shuckles »

username90 wrote: post #679
shuckles wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no way you are paying for 5 years of software development and your hardware for $1300. Suppose half the cost of iPhone was to build the physical object (likely low, given Apple’s 35% overall gross margins), you’re effectively saying that iOS is worth $10/mo, which is a gross underestimate. It is at least as complex a piece of software as Creative Cloud which costs $30/mo. As another benchmark, premium Android…

> you’re effectively saying that iOS is worth $10/mo, which is a gross underestimate Windows costs me way less than that, why should iOS cost 500$?

Why should the most successful commercial operating system in history with ongoing, major annual updates be as cheap as an operating system that’s been in maintenance mode for almost a decade?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#730

Post by username90 »

jpttsn wrote: post #724
username90 wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restaurants doesn't sell silverware. And even if they did they wouldn't have 10% of EU as customers. EU puts their anti trust laws for marketplaces at 10% instead of defining it as a monopoly, at that size you have to play fair.

Restaurants sell a bundled experience. The use of their silverware is part of what I buy. You could argue that the restaurant shouldn’t be a gatekeeper. Other parties could let me enjoy a cheaper meal, competing to offer the most discounted silverware. My $10 burger could be $9 if I could rent a paper plate from a third party and eat on the floor. After all, the restaurant shouldn’t abuse it’s monopoly, right?

Does this restaurants operation constitute more than 10% of the silverware market? If not, there is your answer.
Post reply on HN