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It's your device, you should be able to repair it

bbc.com

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Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#381

Post by thinkharderdev »

joshspankit wrote: post #339
thinkharderdev wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that it is correct to say that anyone is telling you anything. Apple has decided that they will drop support for devices after a certain period of time because the development effort of maintaining support is too costly given the number of users with the old hardware. If I could be emperor for a day I would just mandate that when they drop support an old device, they have to provide a way for users stil…

What I mean about we (society) is that it’s public opinion that supports or limits legislation. If a small group of people decide to use devices after they are unsupported, they also need support from society in general to be able to get the right to exercise that choice. If we (society) don’t make the choice to actively support those rights, we are making the choice to let them die on the vine.

Fair enough. I would just draw the line at mandating continued software support and updates. I was actually thinking earlier and would amend my "emperor for a day" plan. I think we should mandate an analog to Matt Levines Certificate for Dumb Investment (https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-09-24/earnin...). Vendors like Apple should be required to provide a mechanism to "jailbreak" any device they make so a user can run any firmware/software they choose, but to get access to that tool they need to go to apple.com and sign a form that says in big, bold red letters:

"THIS IS A REALLY BAD IDEA AND DOING THIS VOIDS ANY WARRANTY OR GUARANTEE WE MAKE FOR THIS DEVICE. AND IF YOU INSIST ON DOING THIS YOU WILL PROBABLY EITHER GET HACKED OR LOSE ALL YOUR DATA. SO PLEASE DON'T DO THIS UNLESS YOU ARE 100% SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. AND IF YOU THINK YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING YOU ARE PROBABLY WRONG."

And if you sign that you can download a tool to jailbreak your iPhone.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#382

Post by google234123 »

fsflover wrote: post #96
ska wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would say it is artificially shortened by design choices. The design choices have to be made to artificially shorten the life, not for any other purpose. For example, I can make a device cheaper and use cheaper materials that wear out faster - that's not planned obsolescence. However if I include a little plastic tab that I know will break before everything else for no good reason other than making it break faste…

> the purpopse of apples closed update system was to shorten the useful life, rather than as a side effect of other product and design goals So what is the reason to prevent updates of software after the support is over? This is a classical software anti-feature.

IT's a ton of work to make and push updates.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#383

Post by google234123 »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #313
quotemstr wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is. In the distant future, we can mine landfills for raw materials.

Do it now, don't leave the future pay for your current debt.

You are against any deficit spending?

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#384

Post by operator-name »

Epskampie wrote: post #134

I’ve recently started repairing more of my own stuff, and it’s actually really fun. I’ve replaced the clickers and scroll sensor on my Razer mouse, resoldered bad connections on our failed washing machine, and removed a piece of dust that was behind a layer right in the center of my new monitor. You feel more proud of a product you’ve repaired yourself. In these repairs i noticed that information (manuals, but also b…

Depending on your product (more like manufacturer) I couldn't agree more. Plenty of failures are small, localised and with some learning easily fixable!

Replacing the frayed cable on a good pair of headphones, usb cable on a functning mouse or even broken display as part of a laptop.

I recently decided to take the more challenge task of repairing a swelling battery in a phone. I didn't have to worry about the back glass as it was already swollen such that the glass had cracked. It was surprisingly easy to take apart, remove the screws and little legos[0] get to the battery. Closing it up was extremely rewarding, as if I'd completed some hard surgery and was stitching just up the patient.

[0]: https://youtu.be/ZRDLw5ortyU

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#385

Post by simion314 »

notJim wrote: post #371
simion314 wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Apple would publish schematic, diagnostic software and allow refurbishing and selling of parts to third party - it will keep your iPhone water proof still. The reality is this, when your device gets old or your screen cracks , Apple will offer to fix it for 70% of a new device price, so you are pushed to buy a new device. I hope this is not controversial and has nothing to do with the water proof preference you ha…

You can already buy some replacement parts, like screens and backs. It doesn't seem like you can replace the motherboard, so that would be a fair point. I wouldn't objecting to coding this into law, but I'm not sure why your comment is implying this is not currently possible.

>some parts

Maybe things changed a bit but you could not buy screens or use refurbished ones. But all parts should be available for phones and laptops, including screens,batteries, chips, ports. Also there should be a way where parts from broken phones could be reused (I know the argument about stolen phones but competent Apple people can find a way to make it possible so we can reuse components from borken devices and not send them some far away to be "recycled" instead of reuse.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#386

Post by operator-name »

quijoteuniv wrote: post #167

I do not really understand the negativity on the comments. Seems everyone can agree on the “right to repair” (it is politically correct) but underneath there seems to be and undermining resentment.

It looks like there is a lot of conflation between the right to repair and repairability of products. They're related but distinct issues.

A lot of dissent seems to be around forced repairability.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#387

Post by soheil »

Should you have the right to repair the CPU inside your machine? Does that mean the manufacturer must design and manufacture the CPU in a way for you to be able to repair it? Where does one draw the line as things get more and more complex? Sadly, we don't live a horse and buggy world anymore where you could just get a new horse or fix a wheel if it stopped working.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#388

Post by Epskampie »

skriticos2 wrote: post #257

So what benefit would the right to repair bring? Even if all the schematics were published, parts be more standardized and built in a way that things are easier to maintain, would it really make a difference? People want the shiny new PS5 no matter how repairable the PS3 is. Maybe in a few decades the technology development slows to a point where this might be reasonable, but today people think on how to get their ha…

Recycling and repairability are not mutually exclusive, more often quite the opposite.

Also, there are many devices where i don’t care for newer models, like the dishwasher.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#389

Post by CivBase »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #227

A thought: some things have long been accepted to need experts or expensive tooling for their repair. So you never read something like "It's your ruptured spinal disk, you should be able to repair it.". I wonder if hardware vendors claim this is analogous.

"Right to repair" also means you can take it to an expert of your choosing. I don't know how to fix many problems my Honda and I could certainly take it to a Honda dealer if/when I encounter such problems, but I'm also happy to take it to someone else who has the knowledge and tools to fix it for me.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#390

Post by amelius »

35fbe7d3d5b9 wrote: post #203
alexvoda wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electronics used to come with full schematics as part of the documentation. As an example, this (1) is how the manual looks for a ~1970-1974 stereo record player I have. You have diagrams of the boards and lists of parts as in individual caps, etc. We should strive to move in that direction, not away from it. Permanently locked bootloaders, DRM for componets, etc. are a move in the oposite direction. To move the over…

> We should demand that any device and any component in any device be second source-able Devices aren't built around discrete components anymore. That ship has sailed, we waved goodbye, partied on the dock, and took an Uber home. Now we're nursing the hangover. But hey, our phones are now marginally thinner than last year's phones, so that might be worth something. I don't see how we get back, considering the market…

Hardware is one thing. My sister has an iPhone 6 which will soon lose support from Apple and apps running on it. Why can't we install Linux on it and save us the e-waste as a bonus?
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