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Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

businessinsider.com

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Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#261

Post by CarelessExpert »

spoonjim wrote: post #243
CarelessExpert wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I agree that Google management made this decision mostly on gut feel. But I think that it aligns with my own gut feel There's another term for that: Confirmation bias. That's fine, but let's not pretend your opinion is any more valid than anyone else's, including the individual employees who feel differently. The reality is no one, here, is actually basing their opinion on data. Absent that this is basically faith.…

The difference is that the individual employee advocating for WFH is doing so because it’s better for them, not because it’s better for Google. The interests of capital and labor are not necessarily aligned here.

Frankly, that makes me even more suspicious of any claims by either side that are not backed by data. Confirmation bias isn't a good basis for credulity.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#262

Post by ryandrake »

rightbyte wrote: post #9

It would be interesting to know the median commute time for those who say they will quit or not. For me it is just insane even thinking about going to go back to 2h commute each day. I don't even know why I considered that OK.

My Bay Area commute is 4+ hours daily, depending on traffic. I don't make nearly enough to be able to afford a $2M "starter home" on the Peninsula, and do not want to be packed into a tiny apartment in the faceless UglyCube#51 apartment complex. COVID-19 and remote work has been a huge quality of life improvement for me.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#263

Post by ryandrake »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #63

Friends and family keep asking me if I'm moving out of my metro area or if I'll move to the deep xurbs. But I've held off any such machinations exactly because of this. My employer has embraced WFH beyond the pandemic but all it takes is a couple bad quarters and a new CEO deciding that working from home is "part of the problem" and "work from the office" is part of some shiny new turnaround plan. And you never know…

If my employer were to offer permanent remote (in writing), I'd list my house and move out of the Bay Area that minute. It's literally the only thing keeping me in this expensive pit.

You've got to get it in writing though, as you say the policy could be changed on a whim and then you're stuck! Also, I wouldn't trust a recruiter who promised WFH unless they promised it in writing. Recruiters can say whatever nonsense they want in order to convince you to join, and then once you do, it's "oopsie! I was totally wrong about that whole WFH thing. Please report to your office building on Monday!"

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#264

Post by artembugara »

Jabbles wrote: post #208
artembugara wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As stated in my message “I assume”

Yeah, was there some thought behind that or did you just pick a number that sounded nice?

I kind of estimated. But, not really feel comfortable to share my calcs.

Google for what is the cost for an average US business is to simply replace an employee. You might be surprised.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#265

Post by jartelt »

Leherenn wrote: post #251
jartelt wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that is totally fine. You and anyone who wants to go back to the office should be absolutely allowed to do so! The issue is more with the modest number of folks who prefer to work remotely and prefer not live near a Google campus. If you are a high performer who has manager/VP level approval to stay remote, why would Google HR force you to move back to a Google office? They should just allow some folks to work fu…

To play devil's advocate, managing/being in a team where most people are in the office and a few remote is difficult. There will be a natural tendency to push aside/forget the people remote. I will be in this position (the only one remote) in a few months when they all go back in the office. I've talked with my manager about it, and we're trying to prepare this, but I'm not sure it is going to work. Also, the commute…

In that case, then your manager could not support you going remote and require you to come back. If that were the case, I would understand (though it would be a bummer for you).

I am saying there are employees at google who a performing well remotely now, their manager/VP support them staying remote, but Google HR is saying they must return to the office anyways. Google should just allows managers/VPs to let employees stay remote if they are good employees and are performing well. Instead they are pushing a one size fits all policy and haven't said anything about possible manager/VP exceptions.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#266

Post by falcolas »

notdonspaulding wrote: post #14

What people say they will do when there's no cost associated with an action and what people will actually do once a cost IS associated with the same action are frequently 2 different things. Bob Lutz, in his self-aggrandizing book "Gutz", describes the initial phase of an automobile design project where a survey is conducted asking respondents whether they would prefer a vehicle with heated cupholders. It turned out…

> the percentage of people who responded positively was significantly higher than the percentage of people who ultimately chose to pay for the option in actual sales

I'm guessing it's (at least partially) because they weren't offered a'la carte, but instead bundled with the "premium" interior package only offered in the most expensive trim.

This bundling is the only way I've ever gotten the option of heated/chilled cupholders (which are awesome, by the way).

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#267

Post by rightbyte »

ironman1478 wrote: post #122
rightbyte wrote: post #9

It would be interesting to know the median commute time for those who say they will quit or not. For me it is just insane even thinking about going to go back to 2h commute each day. I don't even know why I considered that OK.

I really want to know this too. The traffic in the bay area is so awful and housing is so expensive that I imagine a lot of people are just brutalized by the commute, at least in the mountain view office (dunno what its like elsewhere). Even if you have access to the shuttle its still wasted time that a person will never get back and I think covid made that obvious to many people who might've just accepted the commut…

> a lot of people are just brutalized by the commute

Brutalized is the right wording... It was when I stopped to commute I realized how bad it was for me also.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#268

Post by throwaway823882 »

coolspot wrote: post #186
throwaway823882 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What possible upside could there be Taxes? Could be that municipalities gave them huge tax write-offs assuming they would bring lots of jobs to the area, and now they may have to write all that off if they don't bring people back. Management is also terrified of not having hands/eyes on people. They are already so disconnected from people and have no concept of how to manage remote work, that they literally feel po…

But Google managers don’t monitor you when in person.

I mean the corporation, not individual managers.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#269

Post by dan_quixote »

ryandrake wrote: post #263
DubiousPusher wrote: post #63

Friends and family keep asking me if I'm moving out of my metro area or if I'll move to the deep xurbs. But I've held off any such machinations exactly because of this. My employer has embraced WFH beyond the pandemic but all it takes is a couple bad quarters and a new CEO deciding that working from home is "part of the problem" and "work from the office" is part of some shiny new turnaround plan. And you never know…

If my employer were to offer permanent remote (in writing), I'd list my house and move out of the Bay Area that minute. It's literally the only thing keeping me in this expensive pit. You've got to get it in writing though, as you say the policy could be changed on a whim and then you're stuck! Also, I wouldn't trust a recruiter who promised WFH unless they promised it in writing. Recruiters can say whatever nonsense…

An offer "in writing" means effectively nothing in the US. I'm not sure where people get this idea. Your employment is, for all intents and purposes, "at-will" even if it's not technically codified in law due to the high burden of proof on the employee. If your employer wants to change the contract, you've got an uphill battle to keeping the original terms AND your job.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#270

Post by wombat-man »

azemetre wrote: post #147
occz wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This take entirely ignores the invested human capital, which you lose entirely when you drive a worker to quit. Google have invested a lot into retaining their workers as well, so I'm sure that they know that as well.

Is Google even good at retaining employees? The average tenure appears to be 1 to 2 years. [1] [2] [3] Hardly enough time to even know the impact and costs of what you developed and shipped. Kind of makes you wonder what type of work force you're creating when a large percentage of them are constantly leaving. Maybe for ICs this isn't a concern compared to Directors, VPs, or maybe Staff SEs? [1] https://www.payscale.…

wow every year? I'm doing every 2-3 which I was worried would be too often.
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