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It's your device, you should be able to repair it

bbc.com

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Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#241

Post by emkoemko »

rasz wrote: post #161
cbmuser wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s usually because these people don’t have the slightest clue how industrial mass-production for consumer goods work. They constantly think it’s always about the customer, it isn’t. The products are almost always optimized for costs, nothing else. If a manufacturer uses glue instead screws, they don’t do that to make it harder to repair. They prefer glue because it’s cheaper. The same applies for cheap components…

No, its not optimized for cost. Manufacturing is optimized for _profit_. >they don’t do that to make it harder to repair you mean cryptographically linking lcd screen to motherboard is done for cost, not to stop third parties from being able to repair it?

not just electronics, John Deer tractors and farming machines... all the parts have encrypted links that only John Deer repair shops can sync new parts... soon your car won't let you change your tire without it not turning on, unless you buy their "tire"

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#242

Post by creaturemachine »

Spooky23 wrote: post #212
alexvoda wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electronics used to come with full schematics as part of the documentation. As an example, this (1) is how the manual looks for a ~1970-1974 stereo record player I have. You have diagrams of the boards and lists of parts as in individual caps, etc. We should strive to move in that direction, not away from it. Permanently locked bootloaders, DRM for componets, etc. are a move in the oposite direction. To move the over…

Be careful. My dad replaced a defective memory chip on his IBM PC XT.. but the computer cost the equivalent of $12k. I’d rather throw away a dozen modern laptops than fix one that costs 10x.

Your comparison does not work. Replaceable parts didn't make that IBM cost what it did.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#243

Post by [deleted] »

jolux wrote: post #237
nousermane wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can choose to forgo owning stuff personally, sure. But that is not everybody's preference. And please don't pretend that "devices aren't built around discrete components anymore". There are plenty of discrete components in a modern phone/laptop/roomba/whatever, that could be replaceable/upgradable by advanced user or entry-level technician, but are not: - battery - screen - storage - RAM - list goes on and on...

I believe the GP was talking about discrete circuitry vs integrated circuits, not so much supporting peripherals.

[deleted]

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#244

Post by bun_at_work »

faeriechangling wrote: post #199
whereis wrote: post #132

Counterpoint: We're all safer by using devices that can't be repaired/tampered with by end users.

Safer? I could cause a safety issue attempting my own car or bicycle repairs and both of those things are much more repairable than a modern smartphone. You know what's bad for human "safety"? Gratuitously burning through resources and causing pollution by making phones out of all sorts of rare materials and hucking them out.

Pretty sure OP is not referring to physical safety here, but more cyber security.

Apple's devices offer a lot of cyber security that more modular devices can't guarantee as effectively.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#245

Post by unilynx »

35fbe7d3d5b9 wrote: post #240
anoncake wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it'd rather treat devices as things that we lease for a low cost from a vertically-integrated company. It's weird how you defend Corporations' private property while apparently disliking the idea of personal property.

It's weird how you read me describing the decisions of the market and attribute them to my opinion/preferences.

He probably missed the first t

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#246

Post by prosaic-hacker »

dnh44 wrote: post #80
ryandrake wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that when a security vulnerability is made public, patching the operating system with an update is a form of repair. The device is as broken as my Gen-1 iPad that can no longer browse the web safely. If the manufacturer stops releasing such updates, AND actively prevents the user from developing and applying their own updates, then they are preventing repair.

To be fair that first gen iPad is too slow to browse the web at all unless it's a really lean site like HN.

I have a First Gen iPad with a dozen or so contemporary applications the still work because they do not touch the net at all. I also have hundreds of books that were legally downloaded. (humble bundles and creative common). It is my Replacement for an alarm clock beside my bed. I do have a list of sites that are lean enough to be read on it. Text mostly. I serves its purpose.

I really do not want this machine to fail because use it often. It would be lots of work recreate the convenience and familiarity of use if all the failed was a 50 cent button.

(PS it is on the net on my IOT "don't trust the IP stack" "vlan" of my home network [3 dumb router style DD-wrt units] in case it does get hit by a site attacking 10 year old iPads. I have my TVs, DVD players with apps and Guest access on it. May I will get another dumb router for the guests)

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#247

Post by anoncake »

35fbe7d3d5b9 wrote: post #240
anoncake wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it'd rather treat devices as things that we lease for a low cost from a vertically-integrated company. It's weird how you defend Corporations' private property while apparently disliking the idea of personal property.

It's weird how you read me describing the decisions of the market and attribute them to my opinion/preferences.

Sorry.

But if you had designed the English language better, not making "It" and "I" so similar, this wouldn't have happened.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#248

Post by GordonS »

34679 wrote: post #172
leoedin wrote: post #53

PCs and even most laptops have been very repairable for decades. You can still run Windows or Linux on a 10+ (20+?) year old laptop without an issue. The idea that a 5 year old laptop would be unusable or not get the latest version of Windows is unacceptable. Yet phones cost similar amounts and have nowhere near the repairability. A decade ago you could argue that it wasn't that important - specs were changing so qui…

5 year old laptops are repairable, but fewer and fewer new ones are not. I've been in the market recently and it's extremely frustrating trying to find a laptop that doesn't have the RAM soldered in place. Sure, it can technically be desoldered, but that's not how it used to be.

I'm hunting for a new laptop just now, and just about everything has at least one DIMM soldered, with many having both soldered. Driving me nuts!

Is there a convincing technical reason why everybody is doing this nowadays?

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#249

Post by shoto_io »

emkoemko wrote: post #231
shoto_io wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know why we shouldn’t let the market handle this. If people want everything to be repairable then why isn’t there a phone which solve that issue? Maybe people don’t care that much after all.

i not sure what your talking about... people get their phones fixed all the time, its just the companies make it very difficult or not possible at all when you can't get access to parts, or you have companies like Apple who prevent you importing parts even if the parts are ripped out of broken devices. Then you have Apple who lie they say you can't recover your data or repair your device, yet you go to a repair shop…

But that’s my point. Why do buy a phone from company like that? Just stop buying from them and buy from another manufacturer instead and the problem will be solved.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#250

Post by johncessna »

bcrosby95 wrote: post #170
whereis wrote: post #132

Counterpoint: We're all safer by using devices that can't be repaired/tampered with by end users.

I don't buy it. Cars are far more dangerous and they've been mandated to be repairable for decades now.

Agreed, but the tide is shifting there, too. It's not a problem getting an off the shelf part for your vehicle. It's the software for that part that's the problem.

We already see phone manufacturers locking 'easily' replaceable parts to the rest of the phone in a way that the phone rejects the replaced part. As our cars gets smarter, look for similar tactics to be applied there.

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