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It's your device, you should be able to repair it

bbc.com

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Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#181

Post by splix »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #76
fsflover wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That isn’t planned obsolescence. Yes, it is. Even though Apple devices last longer, after the support is ended, I cannot do anything with them. I cannot update, install anything. They effectively become bricks. If this is not planned obsolescence, then what is?

Except they don’t become bricks. They still work just fine. In fact, on some more recent unsupported devices, you can still redownload apps (but only up to the latest version supporting your device). Did the Apple II become a brick when Apple stopped supporting them? The IBM PC? Why is an older iDevice a “brick”, but not BlackBerrys or Nokias?

You can redownload supporting apps, but the problem is that the official App Store doesn't have them once a new version of OS comes out.

I remember when in 2014 I decided to give away my unused iPad 1st gen, just as a e-reader. So I've erased it but no apps were supporting this device already. Even the official Apple Books app.

Yes, techicaly it wasn't bricked, it worked, you still can turn it on and off. But without software it's useless.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#182

Post by maxerickson »

alexvoda wrote: post #165
css wrote: post #2

This article moves the goalposts on what "right to repair" is several times. It generally means that manufacturers should not hide schematics from device users or disallow third party manufacturing of first party parts. However, the author states: > The law doesn't yet cover smartphones and tablets that she says are getting harder to fix. One problem is keeping older devices updated with new software. Now "right to r…

Electronics used to come with full schematics as part of the documentation. As an example, this (1) is how the manual looks for a ~1970-1974 stereo record player I have. You have diagrams of the boards and lists of parts as in individual caps, etc. We should strive to move in that direction, not away from it. Permanently locked bootloaders, DRM for componets, etc. are a move in the oposite direction. To move the over…

Can't you do that without imposing it on everyone else?

I care about consumption (I'm on my 2nd laptop since ~2003), but I don't particularly want to pay $15,000 to replace this one with one that is worse.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#183

Post by mopsi »

balozi wrote: post #26

A persistent question in my mind is why do customers buy unrepairable products, from smart phones and high-tech tractors. Why is the market failing? Or is it working perfectly?

People don't think about repairs before their stuff is broken, and by then it's too late. That's why things like seat belts and fire alarms have to be forced upon people.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#184

Post by tratax »

jimmaswell wrote: post #180
alexvoda wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electronics used to come with full schematics as part of the documentation. As an example, this (1) is how the manual looks for a ~1970-1974 stereo record player I have. You have diagrams of the boards and lists of parts as in individual caps, etc. We should strive to move in that direction, not away from it. Permanently locked bootloaders, DRM for componets, etc. are a move in the oposite direction. To move the over…

I wonder how big the manual would have to be for a smartphone with the equivalent of those old stereo diagrams.

Maybe not that big, unfortunately a lot of the connections will end up going to that SoC that does most of the work and is probably obsolete by the time you want to repair it.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#185

Post by epanchin »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #52
david_allison wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fairphone[0] is a European manufacturer which does this (modular replaceable components, 10/10 on iFixit and usable by non-techies). In my experience it's the annual release cycle of Android coupled with the lack of OS updates by manufacturers which contributes to e-waste, closely followed by the lack of battery replaceability. My first smartphone (OnePlus One - 2014) still has the specs to be a perfectly usable phon…

Can anyone enlighten me about 5G? To me it seems to be absolutely nothing more than a marketing tool meant to sell a new generation of phones and phone plans. The fact that it is pushed so fervently just sets of red flags galore for me. 4G is plenty fast and works well for me. I see nothing gained for my phone by going from 100Mbps to 1Gbps(?). Nothing. But its pushed like the second coming of Christ.

Upload of 4k streaming video will be cool. I imagine we'll get some really nice live news videos coming out from independant journalists.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#186

Post by usaphp »

alexvoda wrote: post #165
css wrote: post #2

This article moves the goalposts on what "right to repair" is several times. It generally means that manufacturers should not hide schematics from device users or disallow third party manufacturing of first party parts. However, the author states: > The law doesn't yet cover smartphones and tablets that she says are getting harder to fix. One problem is keeping older devices updated with new software. Now "right to r…

Electronics used to come with full schematics as part of the documentation. As an example, this (1) is how the manual looks for a ~1970-1974 stereo record player I have. You have diagrams of the boards and lists of parts as in individual caps, etc. We should strive to move in that direction, not away from it. Permanently locked bootloaders, DRM for componets, etc. are a move in the oposite direction. To move the over…

I see a good intention behind it, but it only works only if only honest people and companies exist. It’s not the case in real world.

What would prevent a competitor simply copying the whole product and offering a cheaper price because they didn’t have to invest in R&D, and those engineers who spent many years working on a finished schematics will be out of job because the company won’t be able to make a living selling more expensive products?

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#188

Post by EvanAnderson »

judge2020 wrote: post #146
LocalH wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they should have to open iOS signing to all versions a device ever received when it becomes EOL? That also has implications with regards to preservation - if you can never install a given version of the OS again, then how can you trust it is properly preserved?

You can always install the old version, Apple just doesn't think they can optimize new iOS versions to make old phones work well with the new software (and the bloat/feature creep within).

Without circumventing protections you cannot install old versions of iOS. Many phone models have flaws in the protections that allow you to circumvent the protections, but officially installing old iOS versions ends when Apple decides.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#189

Post by ska »

splix wrote: post #153
ska wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only planned obsolescence if the lifetime of a product is artificially shortened by design choices. It's not clear this applies here.

I cannot replace a battery on a perfectly working iPad otherwise, and Apple is charging almost a price of a new device to replace it for me, i.e. they are basially forcing me to buy a new one. Wondering, can that be called a planned obsolescence or not?

> Wondering, can that be called a planned obsolescence or not?

I don't think it can, for reasons elsewhere in thread.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#190

Post by rasz »

endisneigh wrote: post #33

I wonder how the right to repair intersects with security. On one extreme, full right to repair is full access to all source code, schematics and documents related to the phone and all of its hardware and software. It would necessarily also give you the ability to arbitrarily flash firmware and install software without limitation. Clearly this can't be good for security. However the other extreme, no access to anythi…

I can arbitrarily flash firmware and install software on my laptop without access to source code.
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