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It's your device, you should be able to repair it

bbc.com

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Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#171

Post by rasz »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #32
scrose wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We used to have this right, but it feels like somewhere between 2010-2015, companies realized they could make more money by disallowing simple replacements. I used to make some money as a kid by buying batches of broken Iphone 3G/3GS's on ebay, replacing parts on them, and then re-selling them myself. Practically any part of that device could be replaced in less than 30 minutes with $15 worth of tools. I have a 2012M…

I draw the line at SMDs. We should go back to through-hole components — I can desolder and resolder those. Sorry, I'm not trying to mock you. Just saw an opportunity to be facetious, not facetious. And, actually, to sort of make a point: I don't buy into the idea that companies are intentionally doing this — intentionally disallowing replacement parts, although I maybe just be naive. I do in fact loathe SMDs (as a ho…

Your argument doesnt work, because your smd is crypto locks and monopolistic "you cant sell this part to anybody else" business deals. Manufacturers are starting to use cryptographic handshakes between components.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#172

Post by 34679 »

leoedin wrote: post #53

PCs and even most laptops have been very repairable for decades. You can still run Windows or Linux on a 10+ (20+?) year old laptop without an issue. The idea that a 5 year old laptop would be unusable or not get the latest version of Windows is unacceptable. Yet phones cost similar amounts and have nowhere near the repairability. A decade ago you could argue that it wasn't that important - specs were changing so qui…

5 year old laptops are repairable, but fewer and fewer new ones are not. I've been in the market recently and it's extremely frustrating trying to find a laptop that doesn't have the RAM soldered in place. Sure, it can technically be desoldered, but that's not how it used to be.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#173

Post by Karunamon »

beefalo wrote: post #121
segmondy wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they also going to force "the right to sell" instead of rent? Nothing is stopping companies from renting instead of selling their products. We already see that with software, no one is trying to sell software these days, it's all subscriptions. It could happen with hardware, in which case you don't have the right to repair since it never belonged to you.

Most cell phones are leased already today

No they're not. Leasing implies a limited, fixed term. Financing and leasing are two different transactions.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#174

Post by hilbert42 »

lsllc wrote: post #28
fouric wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not very happy with the quality of the article, overall. It seems useful for a consumer, but obvious, and old-hat, to HN denizens. HN submissions are supposed to be "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity", but we've seen dozens of right-to-repair articles by now, and this doesn't bring anything substantially new to the table (unlike the top previous submissions https://hn.algolia.com/?q=right+to+re…

I think anything publicizing "right to repair" in mainstream media is a good thing. Agreed that for HN denizens, it's nothing new, but most people are just unaware of this topic. Glad to see the BBC running this.

"I think anything publicizing "right to repair" in mainstream media is a good thing."

Absolutely, the more the merrier. Also, I believe that lay people are now becoming aware of the fact, as I've seen many articles both in the daily press and on the television news about it (where I live the Government's current inquiry into the matter seeking public comment has been reasonably well covered).

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#175

Post by thinkharderdev »

ryandrake wrote: post #139
thinkharderdev wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that it is correct to say that anyone is telling you anything. Apple has decided that they will drop support for devices after a certain period of time because the development effort of maintaining support is too costly given the number of users with the old hardware. If I could be emperor for a day I would just mandate that when they drop support an old device, they have to provide a way for users stil…

While I agree with your "emperor for a day" solution, I'd like to point out that wanting to use a device I paid for longer than two years after I bought it is not an idiosyncratic choice. Apple's last OS update for the device (iOS 5.1.1) was a mere 2 years after the device's initial release. This is IMO totally unreasonable. I have a PC next to me that's 20 years old which still functions and runs a very recent Linux…

Did the device stop working or did they just stop updating it? If it actually stopped working then I agree it is really shitty of them and even if they stopped providing security updates it is kind of shitty of them. But I think the solution is to take your business elsewhere. It's not as if Apple has a monopoly on the smartphone market and you don't have other options.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#176

Post by rasz »

jack_h wrote: post #93
JKCalhoun wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I draw the line at SMDs. We should go back to through-hole components — I can desolder and resolder those. Sorry, I'm not trying to mock you. Just saw an opportunity to be facetious, not facetious. And, actually, to sort of make a point: I don't buy into the idea that companies are intentionally doing this — intentionally disallowing replacement parts, although I maybe just be naive. I do in fact loathe SMDs (as a ho…

This is pretty much it. Why do we use a BGA or WLCSP rather than a DIP package? Because we can’t fit a DIP package into the form factor, and manufacturing costs are higher. Why did we glue/epoxy a few components to the board? Because the device needed to pass a drop test such that components aren’t flying off. Why did we ultrasonically weld the enclosure shut? Because we needed IP68 or above rating and the price poin…

Straw man. No right to repair movement is arguing for making bulkier devices using older technology. I have zero problem with underfilled BGA _as long as I can buy replacement chip from legitimate source_.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#178

Post by Karunamon »

splix wrote: post #153
ska wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only planned obsolescence if the lifetime of a product is artificially shortened by design choices. It's not clear this applies here.

I cannot replace a battery on a perfectly working iPad otherwise, and Apple is charging almost a price of a new device to replace it for me, i.e. they are basially forcing me to buy a new one. Wondering, can that be called a planned obsolescence or not?

If we're talking about an unsupported devices, aren't the downsides of third party repairs basically moot? There are any number of above-board companies that you can ship your device to and will do a battery swap for you so long as batteries are available.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#179

Post by rasz »

ncallaway wrote: post #55
antattack wrote: post #50

Given opposition to 'right to repair' from corporations, some of it on valid grounds IMO, I would be fine with the following compromise: If company does not want to provide resources needed for consumer to repair a device- it ought to provide extended warranty to the consumer for free or a small fee.

> If company does not want to allow consumer to repair a device- it ought to provide extended warranty to the consumer for a small fee. I would modify that: If a company restricts a consumer from repairing a device (either explicitly in warranty policies, or implicitly by producing devices that are hard to repair, restricting part availability, or not having manuals available), then the company must (not should) prov…

Apple already does this, they define _at cost_ as a cost of a new device.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#180

Post by jimmaswell »

alexvoda wrote: post #165
css wrote: post #2

This article moves the goalposts on what "right to repair" is several times. It generally means that manufacturers should not hide schematics from device users or disallow third party manufacturing of first party parts. However, the author states: > The law doesn't yet cover smartphones and tablets that she says are getting harder to fix. One problem is keeping older devices updated with new software. Now "right to r…

Electronics used to come with full schematics as part of the documentation. As an example, this (1) is how the manual looks for a ~1970-1974 stereo record player I have. You have diagrams of the boards and lists of parts as in individual caps, etc. We should strive to move in that direction, not away from it. Permanently locked bootloaders, DRM for componets, etc. are a move in the oposite direction. To move the over…

I wonder how big the manual would have to be for a smartphone with the equivalent of those old stereo diagrams.
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