It's your device, you should be able to repair it • Hacker News Board

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#131

Post by poisonborz » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #5

A bit of a tangent, but I'm really surprised one of the android vendors hasn't focused on the niche of easy to repair phones. Maybe even making them four or five times the thickness of the latest i-sung devices. extra hot swappable batteries and the like. I know the ostensible reasons waterproofing, planned obsolescence, looking cool, and being light weight. Though I suspect the real reason is they're just chasing th…

SoC vendors like Qualcomm do not support their chipsets more than a few years. Without new drivers, no updated Android versions. Without new Android version, no security patches. How could a company support an unsecure device that might be hackable by any Play store app or script kiddie?

Software and hardware support (from the manufacturer) are tied closely together, and the industry makes it really hard to achieve this.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#132

Post by whereis » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

Counterpoint: We're all safer by using devices that can't be repaired/tampered with by end users.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#133

Post by thinkharderdev » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

joshspankit wrote: post #90

dnh44 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair that first gen iPad is too slow to browse the web at all unless it's a really lean site like HN.

But if we (users) choose to only browse lean sites with our first-gen iPads, why should we (society) say “stop doing that”?

I don't think that it is correct to say that anyone is telling you anything. Apple has decided that they will drop support for devices after a certain period of time because the development effort of maintaining support is too costly given the number of users with the old hardware.

If I could be emperor for a day I would just mandate that when they drop support an old device, they have to provide a way for users still owning that device to have unlimited ability to load and run any software on it. That way if you really want to keep using your first-gen iPad then you can support it yourself. But it doesn't seem right to mandate that someone else continue to spend effort supporting idiosyncratic choices of all users.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#134

Post by Epskampie » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

I’ve recently started repairing more of my own stuff, and it’s actually really fun. I’ve replaced the clickers and scroll sensor on my Razer mouse, resoldered bad connections on our failed washing machine, and removed a piece of dust that was behind a layer right in the center of my new monitor. You feel more proud of a product you’ve repaired yourself.

In these repairs i noticed that information (manuals, but also being able to discuss on forums) and parts are crucial, so i’m glad to see that those are the things encoded in law. A further measure could be forbidding forced (hardware level) linking of parts.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#135

Post by antattack » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

balozi wrote: post #26

A persistent question in my mind is why do customers buy unrepairable products, from smart phones and high-tech tractors. Why is the market failing? Or is it working perfectly?

Is there an alternative? This is a perfect place for government to step in and nurture an environment that discourages waste.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#136

Post by joshspankit » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

overgard wrote: post #120

> 'It's your device, ... Sadly, while that /should/ be true, I'm not sure that on any practical level it is anymore. There's about a 1000 ways the manufacturer, carrier, os developer, etc., can make your device entirely useless without you having much of any recourse, because while they can't physically take the device from you, they can stop providing you service.

This is exactly why “Right to repair” rose up to claw that ownership back.

If we don’t create laws, at some point down the road we will go from “not much recourse” to literally none.

What if Apple created a phone with no ports that was filled with epoxy as the last step in assembly? What if powering it on at all meant logging in to your apple account?

They could in every meaningful way take that device away from you at the run of a single function.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#137

Post by omgwtfbyobbq » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

css wrote: post #2

This article moves the goalposts on what "right to repair" is several times. It generally means that manufacturers should not hide schematics from device users or disallow third party manufacturing of first party parts. However, the author states: > The law doesn't yet cover smartphones and tablets that she says are getting harder to fix. One problem is keeping older devices updated with new software. Now "right to r…

It is goalpost moving, but I also agree with the author. If a device is no longer supported by a company, or that company goes under, there should be some mechanism to make any software needed to modify software on the device available.

Take the essential ph-1 as an example. Now that the company is gone, if a device bricks during an update, that's it. Having the firehose file would make it possible to unblock it, but without it, a bricked phone is just spare parts (less the main board).

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#138

Post by Proven » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

Nonsense.

Yes, you may repair it if you want, that's never been the issue. But then don't come back asking for free service or free replacement parts when you can't fix it or when it breaks next time.

The manufacturer has no moral or other obligation to provide help, info or assistance beyond conditions under which I've sold the device or equipment. If you don't like a deal, find yourself a better one.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#139

Post by ryandrake » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

thinkharderdev wrote: post #133

joshspankit wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if we (users) choose to only browse lean sites with our first-gen iPads, why should we (society) say “stop doing that”?

I don't think that it is correct to say that anyone is telling you anything. Apple has decided that they will drop support for devices after a certain period of time because the development effort of maintaining support is too costly given the number of users with the old hardware. If I could be emperor for a day I would just mandate that when they drop support an old device, they have to provide a way for users stil…

While I agree with your "emperor for a day" solution, I'd like to point out that wanting to use a device I paid for longer than two years after I bought it is not an idiosyncratic choice. Apple's last OS update for the device (iOS 5.1.1) was a mere 2 years after the device's initial release. This is IMO totally unreasonable. I have a PC next to me that's 20 years old which still functions and runs a very recent Linux distribution.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#140

Post by criddell » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

joshspankit wrote: post #125

criddell wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we are going to allow software patents on the basis that software is a device, then laws affecting physical devices should apply to software as well.

I’m curious but don’t know what laws you’re suggesting. Could you dig a bit deeper?

I was thinking about right to repair laws. What's the analog for schematics when you are talking about a software device? It's going to be something like source code or API documentation.