Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit • Hacker News Board

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#201

Post by itronitron » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:36 PM UTC

dcolkitt wrote: post #7

It seems strange that Google management would push so hard on this. Nearly everyone I've spoken to has reported that WFH productivity has been equal, if not better than pre-pandemic. What possible upside could there be that justifies forcing the issue and hurting morale by pissing so many people off? Sure, maybe there's an argument that a fully remote company has a hard time propagating a coherent corporate culture.…

>> What possible upside could there be that justifies forcing the issue.. ?

You can think of it as a filter for identifying easy to control employees.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#202

Post by throwaways885 » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:37 PM UTC

theflyinghorse wrote: post #137

throwaways885 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. As somebody who has seen both sides of a hiring process like that, the reality is the vast majority of candidates are just awful. You can probably rule out nearly 75% of applicants right off the bat. Add in hiring laws, bureaucracy, immigration, negotiation, candidates withdrawing, and finding a good person who works for your team can take months.

Yes, could you elaborate on the awful nature of most applicants? Do you mean that they are not fit to make software or that they are not Google material?

The former. Everybody knows top quality engineers are very hard to find, but there is also an inverse problem - the amount of programmers who know nothing but React.js or other is shockingly high.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#203

Post by jpollock » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:38 PM UTC

dcolkitt wrote: post #7

It seems strange that Google management would push so hard on this. Nearly everyone I've spoken to has reported that WFH productivity has been equal, if not better than pre-pandemic. What possible upside could there be that justifies forcing the issue and hurting morale by pissing so many people off? Sure, maybe there's an argument that a fully remote company has a hard time propagating a coherent corporate culture.…

Yes, productivity increased in the short term. However, this was due to heroic efforts on the part of the teams. I know I worked crazy-ass hours last year. This was needed to cover for the rest of the team who were on 50% hours (or less if partner wasn't WFH) due to childcare requirements.

Additionally, it emptied the pipeline. We implemented a lot of work that was queued up, but we are now stalling on product design and engineering design approvals where coordination and communication is key.

The increase in productivity is achievable on the short term, but not long-term. My productivity this year has fallen off a cliff.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#204

Post by burnished » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:38 PM UTC

dont__panic wrote: post #178

Uberphallus wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I've lived both experiences: it was perfect for me when my son, few months old, was sleeping the most part of the day. But once a kid switches to 1 nap per day, it's impossible to have a schedule to have any kind of focused work. Day care here have long waiting lists and they've been closed for half of the pandemic anyway.

Wouldn't daycare present just as much of an issue if you started working from an office?

One parent works for money, one parent works to take care of the home/children is not an unusual situation.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#205

Post by artembugara » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:38 PM UTC

Jabbles wrote: post #166

artembugara wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. I'd assume that a cost to replace 1 SE employee at google is close to USD 1,000,000 2. It's hard as never before to hire someone to from from the office (US tech giants are hiring many H1Bs) So, I disagree. It can become a long-term crisis.

Where does your estimate come from?

As stated in my message “I assume”

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#206

Post by mLuby » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:42 PM UTC

dcolkitt wrote: post #7

It seems strange that Google management would push so hard on this. Nearly everyone I've spoken to has reported that WFH productivity has been equal, if not better than pre-pandemic. What possible upside could there be that justifies forcing the issue and hurting morale by pissing so many people off? Sure, maybe there's an argument that a fully remote company has a hard time propagating a coherent corporate culture.…

  Concentrated vs diffuse costs:

Execs and managers have inherently social jobs, so not having everyone in the office is a concentrated pain point for them compared to it being a minor inconvenience for most individual contributors. Conveniently for the execs, they also have concentrated power to decide this for themselves and ICs, whereas ICs have little collective power.

  Return to normal:

Companies that don't return to office as soon as the pandemic recedes will have a much harder time justifying the move later (see Yahoo!). So if there's a time to dig in and fight, it's right now as the extraordinary situation of the pandemic ends, since whatever policy is in place then will likely stay in place for years after.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#207

Post by lamontcg » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

notdonspaulding wrote: post #14

What people say they will do when there's no cost associated with an action and what people will actually do once a cost IS associated with the same action are frequently 2 different things. Bob Lutz, in his self-aggrandizing book "Gutz", describes the initial phase of an automobile design project where a survey is conducted asking respondents whether they would prefer a vehicle with heated cupholders. It turned out…

I love the short term thinking here.

They won't immediately abandon ship once we force them back to the salt mines, so there's no problem.

Even if they come back if the resent the company for economically forcing them back that isn't a good situation for morale or productivity or retention.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#208

Post by Jabbles » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

artembugara wrote: post #205

Jabbles wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does your estimate come from?

As stated in my message “I assume”

Yeah, was there some thought behind that or did you just pick a number that sounded nice?

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#209

Post by splithalf » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

nunez wrote: post #70

splithalf wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are getting paid while you are not in the office, but you would make it so that others don’t have that ability?

They weren't saying that. They were just saying that they preferred having an office. I think it's okay to want to have an office. Working from home isn't for everyone. I pay for my own office because I really need my work space to be separate from my home space, but I understand why others would prefer to not have a commute/be closer to the family/enjoy their creature comforts/etc.

I like offices too, but they are bad in many ways that ought to be acknowledged. To ask those who spend all day writing code to bookend that with an hour long commute each day, because other people enjoy “having a chat” is absurd.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#210

Post by intergalplan » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

xhkkffbf wrote: post #91

mc32 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google isn’t Yahoo for sure and I presume they have better ways to know if people are putting in work —but... Marissa Maier had the unfortunate discovery that many of her remote workers were ghost workers. On the payroll but not doing much. Some might have even had other full-time jobs. That’s bound to happen when you have large workforces. You have groups of people who make it so that productive people can’t have ni…

I worked with a guy on a project who was simultaneously running two developers teams in India on the side. He knew the local stack inside and out so he was incredibly useful, but he could generate his insights and do his job in 30-60 minutes each day. Was he WFH? Nope. He was running these teams from his desk in the cubicle farm. And he was relatively open about it too with management. But he knew so much that everyo…

How many CEOs and "founders" on LinkedIn list a half-dozen active projects, businesses, and roles (boards, "advisor"), and then blog about the "challenge" of balancing all that with family life, which they still manage to do just fine (the actual secret that cuts to the heart of how they manage that, but which won't make their blog post? None of their jobs demand much time, and they have secretaries and assistants)

Getting bent out of shape when workers do it is just classist bullshit.