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Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

businessinsider.com

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Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#161

Post by mLuby »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #76
dcolkitt wrote: post #7

It seems strange that Google management would push so hard on this. Nearly everyone I've spoken to has reported that WFH productivity has been equal, if not better than pre-pandemic. What possible upside could there be that justifies forcing the issue and hurting morale by pissing so many people off? Sure, maybe there's an argument that a fully remote company has a hard time propagating a coherent corporate culture.…

I'm an engineering manager and everyone on my teams has a different specific vision of "perfect" but all want "more flexibility". I think we can do this but it's both (1) new and (2) more complicated. The bigger you are the more efficiency benefit to adopting a one size fits all approach, even if it fails some.

Agreed, but I'd replace "flexibility" with "choice."

The "choice" is whether to work in the office, or remotely, or a few days of each. Everyone gets what they want!

Flexibility in this context tends to mean "all employees must do some of each every week." Worst of both worlds.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#162

Post by microtherion »

theflyinghorse wrote: post #116
sam0x17 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While technically correct, I think you are dramatically overestimating the difficulty ex-googlers have in getting a new job.

A new job that carries same prestige and benefits?

There is the prestige & benefit of having worked for a FAANG, which, once attained, stays on one's resumé forever, so maybe for some people, tradeoffs that are worth it to attain such a job may no longer be worth it to remain in that job after a few years.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#163

Post by brightball »

notdonspaulding wrote: post #14

What people say they will do when there's no cost associated with an action and what people will actually do once a cost IS associated with the same action are frequently 2 different things. Bob Lutz, in his self-aggrandizing book "Gutz", describes the initial phase of an automobile design project where a survey is conducted asking respondents whether they would prefer a vehicle with heated cupholders. It turned out…

I've learned to be a fan of the expression, "Put your money where your mouth is" for exactly that reason (also, "follow the money" for similar reasons).

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#164

Post by sam0x17 »

jordan801 wrote: post #133
sam0x17 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No FANG company has good work culture or good work/life balance anymore, and all are entangled in some morally questionable project or another. Go work for a startup.

Are startups any better? From what I have seen it's, "work for low wages in a high stress environment, and pray we go public in 5 years".

Top tier yes, mid to low tier no

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#165

Post by OhNoMyqueen »

dcolkitt wrote: post #7

It seems strange that Google management would push so hard on this. Nearly everyone I've spoken to has reported that WFH productivity has been equal, if not better than pre-pandemic. What possible upside could there be that justifies forcing the issue and hurting morale by pissing so many people off? Sure, maybe there's an argument that a fully remote company has a hard time propagating a coherent corporate culture.…

> Nearly everyone I've spoken to has reported that WFH productivity has been equal, if not better than pre-pandemic.

Labor productivity there is no doubt. Overall productivity is something else entirely, since it is optimized by reducing the amount of labor needed. I've seen projects being spared what would have been _months_ of useless labor because the right person was walking back from his coffee break and overheard some discussion he had an insight about.

It's just an annecdote of course, but it's hard to evaluate the evolution of overall productivity when WFH. Especially since it depends on the existing culture of the company, so even success stories like Gitlab can't be used as a proof of anything.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#166

Post by Jabbles »

artembugara wrote: post #38
spoonjim wrote: post #20

Google doesn’t care if most employees quit, they are replaceable. The few that they do care about, they will arrange unofficial exemptions for.

1. I'd assume that a cost to replace 1 SE employee at google is close to USD 1,000,000 2. It's hard as never before to hire someone to from from the office (US tech giants are hiring many H1Bs) So, I disagree. It can become a long-term crisis.

Where does your estimate come from?

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#167

Post by elite_hackers3 »

sriram_sun wrote: post #108
elite_hackers3 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then you’d have to work for Facebook… cringe

Quality of life improvement when you work remote is several fold higher. You have to experience it. I've been working remote (consulting) for about 4 years now. My wife has done it about 1/2 her career. We live in sunny SoCal (expensive, but very tolerable when you don't have to get on the freeways). Take care of No. 1 first. That is you. GOOG folks, please don't cringe at FB. There is no difference.

> Take care of No. 1 first.

what does this mean exactly? work at any terrible company that does terrible things, as long as the pay is good?

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#168

Post by intergalplan »

cglace wrote: post #88
Someone1234 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that like senior management typically makes decisions based on data and facts, rather than the reality where they just shoot from the hip using their "gut." By the same logic implied here, we cannot trust senior management to know what they're doing. PS - Also Google's measures of productivity are terrible, that's why they keep starting/killing new projects ever other week, and killed their golden goose in th…

I love how engineers pretend that they are the only ones acting rationally. It's as if they are playing chess and can never think there might be a reason behind the other players move, only their plan makes sense.

I've seen an awful lot of either not understanding what a measurement means, or not caring, among management, including out of "top-tier" folks from e.g. management consulting firms you've heard of. Talking really obvious "experimental error" types of things. Taking a measurement as indicating something when there there are obvious confounders which, if you don't look into them, are probably making your number meaningless.

I don't think engineers are the only rational ones, but I think the rational ones in management have noticed that their numbers being meaningful or correct only rarely matters for getting a "yes" or a promotion, so have responded... rationally, since getting useful figures and proving that they're useful is both 1) usually a lot more work, and 2) often not even practically possible.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#169

Post by sthomas1618 »

nojito wrote: post #71

Remote workers are generally less productive than onsite workers for my company (100k+) employees Threatening to quit is fine simply because hiring has never been easier for us. I’m sure it’s even easier at Google scale.

Is that take from the gut or is there data to back that up?

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#170

Post by microtherion »

carlmr wrote: post #146
Foobar8568 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I had a dollar each time someone said they wanted to leave badly only to be still in the same company/position 1 or 2 years later....

The question is always why someone is not perfectly happy with a workplace, and what alternatives they have available. You may work in a large bureaucratic corporation, want to work somewhere more dynamic, but you also have adjusted to the large corp salary. You may work at a cool startup, but wish for more time for your family, however the jobs offering a better work life balance are uninspiring. Add to that it take…

Yes, employers have inertia on their side. But for precisely that reason, sometimes mild irritants end up having disproportionate effects in getting people to leave in a "The Elves Leave Middle Earth" moment.
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