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Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

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Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#441

Post by tommit »

bromley wrote: post #357
cheese_goddess wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have. Rather, the vegan I know didn't like the taste of meat. But of course what I said had nothing to do with being vegan because you don't like the taste of cheese. What I said was, if you like the taste of meat and cheese so much so that you can't do without a substitute of it, then why are you vegan? If you are vegan, for good ethical or environmental reasons, then why do you need to eat pretend-meat and preten…

Well I must say that sounds like some peculiar logic to me! But hey, I spent years performing mental gymnastics to justify the suffering I contributed to by eating meat and dairy, so I can see where you are coming from ;) I used to love steak, and fish, and various other non-vegan things. But I became increasingly uncomfortable with the thought of where those things came from, and eventually I had to give them up. I…

There is no hypocrisy in eating substitute products. The comment you're responding to is all over the place. Vegans can't eat substitute products because it goes against non-vegan's morals? I have no idea how one would arrive at such a place without some major projecting. In any case, the last sentence about people eating MORE meat because I enjoy vegan cheese is just bonkers and kind of sums up nicely what mindset they must be in.

Your assessment is exactly right and most people go vegan for the animals and the planet. You're also exactly right in the mental gymnastics most of us have partaken in before making the switch. It's a meme, but bacon is fucking delicious. I would love to continue eating bacon, but I couldn't keep blocking out the thought that this shouldn't go on like this. And if there is ever vegan bacon that comes close to the real thing, you can bet I'll be on that shit in no time, while simultaneously hoping I won't hurt any meat eaters feelings in the process.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#442

Post by hjek »

cheese_goddess wrote: post #438
hjek wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't believe you can, because I understand how cheese works and nut paste doesn't work that way. Totally agree. It's not quite the same. I'm prepared to occasionally abstain from certain well-tasting foods or use a less-than-perfect substitute out of solidarity with farmed animals and out of care for the planet. It's a trade-off. I agree. > As to vegan "meat", that's just vegetables. Yea, exactly. And sometimes…

I'm sure you've heard this one a thousand times before and you have the answer ready. I don't know the answer you have ready so I'm curious to hear it: "Killing animals is not murder. Murder is when a human kills another human". Go ahead then. Say your thing. By the way, I think that hotdogs are gross and unhealthy and I wouldn't eat one, meat or no meat. Like I said in my original comment (from which it's true I dig…

To "murder" is often used in the meaning of to "kill intentionally and with premeditation". Was that not clear from the context?

> there are a ton of other things you can eat and enjoy that are vegetarian or vegan and that are not fake meat or fake cheese.

We agree completely here.

> That to me is just lazy

Again, I agree. However, I think it's good that we're creating opportunities for lazy people to eat vegan too (or people who don't have time to cook, or parents with picky children, or traditionalist family that insist that you can't have Christmas without roast pig, etc.).

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#443

Post by AlgorithmicTime »

andor wrote: post #109
CarelessExpert wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly true. But, as an example, the Impossible Burger notably has more fat and significantly more salt than its meat-based brethren. Sure, it may be purchased due to a perceived variety of other benefits (sustainability, animal rights, etc) totally unrelated to the healthiness of the product, but it's objectively not a healthier option.

The Impossible Burger has about 12% fat which is quite lean. As far as I understand, the meat in most burgers is around 20% fat. Adding things like breadcrumbs, eggs or onions to the patties will of course change the amount.

Burger meat may start at 80/20 lean/fat, but when you cook it, you're rendering out a good chunk of the fat.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#444

Post by rusk »

freeflight wrote: post #436
rusk wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apologies that’s a new one on me I guess it hasn’t made it to my neck of the woods yet! I don’t think the similar effort around meats has gone so well ... EDIT still ongoing and not yet legislated you can still buy “vegan cheese” for now https://m.foodingredientsfirst.com/news/amendment-171-34-pol... It’s interesting that your jurisdiction is so proactive in this area!

> Amendment 171: 34 politicians protest plant-based dairy censorship in European Parliament Between that title, and it having been posted on April the 1st, I find it difficult to take that article serious.

Well you can go look up literally any other recent article on the topic.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#445

Post by tommit »

cheese_goddess wrote: post #426
bromley wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I must say that sounds like some peculiar logic to me! But hey, I spent years performing mental gymnastics to justify the suffering I contributed to by eating meat and dairy, so I can see where you are coming from ;) I used to love steak, and fish, and various other non-vegan things. But I became increasingly uncomfortable with the thought of where those things came from, and eventually I had to give them up. I…

> But hey, I spent years performing mental gymnastics to justify the suffering I contributed to by eating meat and dairy, so I can see where you are coming from ;) You can't. You have no idea where I come from. I never had to perform any mental gymnastics because I don't believe I contribute to any suffering by eating meat. For example, maybe you "come from" (to be literal) such a place as North America, Argentina, o…

Honest question, are you really that worked up over the semantics or did you have one too many experiences with vegans of the pushy type?

I personally welcome the recent increase in vegan products and I hope it continues that way. You're still free to skip the vegan isle in the supermarket, fortunately.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#446

Post by cheese_goddess »

hjek wrote: post #442
cheese_goddess wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you've heard this one a thousand times before and you have the answer ready. I don't know the answer you have ready so I'm curious to hear it: "Killing animals is not murder. Murder is when a human kills another human". Go ahead then. Say your thing. By the way, I think that hotdogs are gross and unhealthy and I wouldn't eat one, meat or no meat. Like I said in my original comment (from which it's true I dig…

To "murder" is often used in the meaning of to "kill intentionally and with premeditation". Was that not clear from the context? > there are a ton of other things you can eat and enjoy that are vegetarian or vegan and that are not fake meat or fake cheese. We agree completely here. > That to me is just lazy Again, I agree. However, I think it's good that we're creating opportunities for lazy people to eat vegan too (…

>> To "murder" is often used in the meaning of to "kill intentionally and with premeditation". Was that not clear from the context?

The context was that killing a non-human animal is murder. Murder is when a human kills another human. When a human kills a non-human animal it's just a "killing".

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#447

Post by cheese_goddess »

tommit wrote: post #445
cheese_goddess wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But hey, I spent years performing mental gymnastics to justify the suffering I contributed to by eating meat and dairy, so I can see where you are coming from ;) You can't. You have no idea where I come from. I never had to perform any mental gymnastics because I don't believe I contribute to any suffering by eating meat. For example, maybe you "come from" (to be literal) such a place as North America, Argentina, o…

Honest question, are you really that worked up over the semantics or did you have one too many experiences with vegans of the pushy type? I personally welcome the recent increase in vegan products and I hope it continues that way. You're still free to skip the vegan isle in the supermarket, fortunately.

I just complained about making assumptions about my state of mind, and now you're assuming I'm "worked up". Do you think that's OK?

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#448

Post by tommit »

cheese_goddess wrote: post #424
hjek wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pretend-vegans [...] For pushing pretend-animal products? I would agree that people who endorse pretend-vegan products are pretend-vegans. There are many products labelled as "veggie" that still contain egg, such as Quorn. But your logic fails by assuming pretend-meat = pretend-vegan. You don't kill anyone by playing Doom, just like you don't eat anyone when eating vegan nuggets. (Yes, there's an argument that viol…

A lesson I learned early in life is this: just because someone is upset with what you're saying, doesn't mean your 're right, or that they're upset because you're right, or even that they're upset about what you think they are. For example, what I find annoying in your comment is the casual attribution of thoughts, emotions, morals and life experiences to me that you have no way to know I have. But you go ahead and m…

> Probably, I'd think your'e a bit of an entitled prick, but be upset about it? Why?

Because you're really upset about some people substituting cheese with fermented nut butter while still calling it cheese. It's not really too far fetched.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#449

Post by tommit »

cheese_goddess wrote: post #447
tommit wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, are you really that worked up over the semantics or did you have one too many experiences with vegans of the pushy type? I personally welcome the recent increase in vegan products and I hope it continues that way. You're still free to skip the vegan isle in the supermarket, fortunately.

I just complained about making assumptions about my state of mind, and now you're assuming I'm "worked up". Do you think that's OK?

It's a slow Friday and I just read all your comments. In short: Yes. I do think it's okay to make that assumption.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#450

Post by cheese_goddess »

tommit wrote: post #449
cheese_goddess wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just complained about making assumptions about my state of mind, and now you're assuming I'm "worked up". Do you think that's OK?

It's a slow Friday and I just read all your comments. In short: Yes. I do think it's okay to make that assumption.

Well, I don't make any assumptions about your state of mind. You should learn to do the same. It will make you a better internet citizen.

I mean, you disagree with me so I must be worked up about what you say? What can I reply to that? There's only one way discussion quality can go after that, and that is down the drain.

Not to mention the casual sexism inherent in that kind of comment to users with clearly feminine identified usernames. "Calm down dear" and all that.

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