What's going on here, with this human? • Hacker News Board

Re: What's going on here, with this human?

#21

Post by callesgg » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 8:56 AM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #19

callesgg wrote: post #18

Yet another person trying to teach what can’t be taught through verbal lessons. Or maybe it can and I have just never been able to find anyone that is able to. Basically you understand other people with reference to your understanding of yourself, to become better at understanding other people you need to change the way you understand yourself. Someone else will not be able to change your understanding of yourself. Y…

> Someone else will not be able to change your understanding of yourself. You must do that yourself. But people can make you think the thoughts and feel the feelings that you wouldn't have otherwise. And those new things can improve your understanding of yourself. I recently understood that I need to avoid people with fragile ego, that get hurt when their opinion is challenged or proven wrong and people that assign t…

That is a good realization! Damaged/broken people are dangerous to be around.

> But people can make you think the thoughts and feel the feelings that you wouldn't have otherwise. And those new things can improve your understanding of yourself.

True. However those insights can’t be reached from learning about them through a verbal description on the meta level like they are in this article. If I tell you it is good to be happy does that realization make you happy? No. To make you happy I must “manipulate” you (or to use terminology from the article your elephant) into being happy. Just telling you “be happy” does not work.

Re: What's going on here, with this human?

#22

Post by squaredisk » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 8:57 AM UTC

galaxyLogic wrote: post #9

I'm not sure I got much of value out of this on a quick reading. Could someone summarize the lessons of this article? I think it's too psyche-oriented. Trying to psycho-analyze the candidates? Trying to find a person from whom you can get the maximum benefit? I've always had the feeling that people who are very interested in psychology are really trying to gain an edge over the others who they now "understand better"…

I came here exactly to say similar thing after reading for 5 mins and things got repetitive. Then i read the "about" section and found the author is from financial sector. I don't think i am going to get much value reading further.

EDIT: Reasoning below. A commenter asked the mental model.

Novel Insights are found when deepwork is performed over analyzing huge's volumes of data from multiple sources and thinking about the interconnections. I doubt any one in financial sector or the business types ever perform deepwork at all. There is really no new ideas or key insights that's worthy of deepwork. I think the success is mostly luck and unique to the situation which is beyond human control. When a financial person says they have 3 decades of experience, its the same thing repeated over and over again with no progress build over the previous work simply because that is not possible. For these reasons i think its not worth the time.

Re: What's going on here, with this human?

#23

Post by rubatuga » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 8:58 AM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #15

danuker wrote: post #10

> I’m looking for the felt sense of a “hungry mind” based on the way their questions flow. That’s very hard to fake. As a candidate, just imagine you own the company. The questions will flow naturally once you think about what those clowns are doing with your money.

What happens if the hungry mind is too hungry for your menial CRUD job, and you were actually better off with the unhungry mind that is content to do its job and go home at the end of the day?

Maybe they end up depressed and start looking for meaning in life.

Re: What's going on here, with this human?

#24

Post by ekianjo » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 9:00 AM UTC

> As the gaming company Valve puts it: “Hiring well is the most important thing in the universe.”

Nope, Hiring is basically almost random no matter how much energy or tests you put in it, you can never know someone well until you actually work with them on a daily basis.

Re: What's going on here, with this human?

#25

Post by rubatuga » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 9:01 AM UTC

squaredisk wrote: post #22

galaxyLogic wrote: post #9

I'm not sure I got much of value out of this on a quick reading. Could someone summarize the lessons of this article? I think it's too psyche-oriented. Trying to psycho-analyze the candidates? Trying to find a person from whom you can get the maximum benefit? I've always had the feeling that people who are very interested in psychology are really trying to gain an edge over the others who they now "understand better"…

I came here exactly to say similar thing after reading for 5 mins and things got repetitive. Then i read the "about" section and found the author is from financial sector. I don't think i am going to get much value reading further. EDIT: Reasoning below. A commenter asked the mental model. Novel Insights are found when deepwork is performed over analyzing huge's volumes of data from multiple sources and thinking abou…

You need to recalibrate your mental models estimating the value of an article.

Re: What's going on here, with this human?

#26

Post by amelius » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 9:03 AM UTC

danuker wrote: post #10

> I’m looking for the felt sense of a “hungry mind” based on the way their questions flow. That’s very hard to fake. As a candidate, just imagine you own the company. The questions will flow naturally once you think about what those clowns are doing with your money.

You might discover that being an employee is a bad deal anyway, and become a freelancer instead or start your own company.

Re: What's going on here, with this human?

#27

Post by hiq » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 9:20 AM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #14

FeepingCreature wrote: post #13

Okay, but how do you know all this works?

You have to rely on your decades-long confirmation bias. I doubt the author (or anyone) goes back to their interview notes a year after hiring the candidate to see how much they got right.

It's also hard to do unless you're hiring for several similar positions at the same time.

If you hired only one guy, who's to say that the others you rejected would have performed better or worse?

If you hired 3 for similar positions, you can start making guesses from interview performances and (in)validating them one year after. But as you said I don't think it's done in practice anyway.

Re: What's going on here, with this human?

#28

Post by StavrosK » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 9:25 AM UTC

hiq wrote: post #27

StavrosK wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to rely on your decades-long confirmation bias. I doubt the author (or anyone) goes back to their interview notes a year after hiring the candidate to see how much they got right.

It's also hard to do unless you're hiring for several similar positions at the same time. If you hired only one guy, who's to say that the others you rejected would have performed better or worse? If you hired 3 for similar positions, you can start making guesses from interview performances and (in)validating them one year after. But as you said I don't think it's done in practice anyway.

It's too bad, because I think it's necessary to go back and check how your predictions were. tptacek had a good process that was consistent, quantified and checked afterwards, but the average interview process (mine included) is just random stuff that ultimately feed into my bias.

Re: What's going on here, with this human?

#29

Post by RGamma » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 9:38 AM UTC

mcbishop wrote: post #3

> One of the greatest gifts we have for each other, for our children and spouses, for our teammates, is the positive feedback loop we can put someone into purely by believing in them, by seeing their genius and their dysfunction clearly and then helping them construct conditions for the former to flourish. Beautiful.

You better enter that positive feedback loop, because if not you will be let go of.

The surface sentiment is enablement but there's always a component of "if you don't perform you're screwed" lurking in the background.

Re: What's going on here, with this human?

#30

Post by flpq » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 9:41 AM UTC

mcbishop wrote: post #3

> One of the greatest gifts we have for each other, for our children and spouses, for our teammates, is the positive feedback loop we can put someone into purely by believing in them, by seeing their genius and their dysfunction clearly and then helping them construct conditions for the former to flourish. Beautiful.

"He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches."

In general, I think a teacher classifying genius and dysfunction is putting people into boxes and may harm his students more than helping them.

I've never encountered a great teacher who talks like that. I've met many people justifying their existence and positions who do talk like that.