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Wi-Fi packet capturing on M1 Macs is broken

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Re: Wi-Fi packet capturing on M1 Macs is broken

#31

Post by jerrysievert »

gumby wrote: post #27
sroussey wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they have not used them before the acquisition?

One of the recent phones (X or 11?) used Intel for part of its builds (as far as I remember you couldn’t tell from serial number). Apple had a lot of problems and swore off the Intel parts, which killed Intel’s wireless business. I assumed Apple bought the Intel product line for IP, especially after that episode.

the iPhone 7 used the intel wireless chip. it was a major downgrade for me from my iPhone 6 at the time: speeds were lower for data transfers, and reception was less (could be attributed to an antenna change?)

overall, I was very happy to get a phone that didn't use the intel chips.

Re: Wi-Fi packet capturing on M1 Macs is broken

#32

Post by Ericson2314 »

rubicks wrote: post #17
Ericson2314 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Linux laptop user, I'm bemused when the competition gets worse. Maybe Linux on Apple Silicon will be the best of both worlds in a few years --- I think the dedicated porting effort will more than succeed and will get something more polished than Linux on Intel macs ever was.

I don't share your optimism. If proprietary firmware and dkms blobs remain _de rigueur_, I can't see the situation on linux improving w.r.t. things like graphics cards and wifi chips.

I wouldn't call it optimism per se, not in absolute terms at least. That will certainly continue to be a problem. But Apple messing up their own software either by accident or on purpose is a nice boon. And a single piece of consumer hardware being so good that that their a patreon for it is also interesting and good.

For the reasons you say, I personally would rather buy e.g. some pine64 thing just might benefit from this porting work. (Probably more in the userland than kernel itself, tbh.)

The one good path I see for hardware is that in the system on chip era, open designs can gain a foothold by saving the companies money, just as no one could compete with free linux for server software 2 decades prior. There was no hope getting a foothold with 1 design = 1 chip, but a world where people can mooch some free IP for their dohicky might do the trick.

Re: Wi-Fi packet capturing on M1 Macs is broken

#33

Post by SilverRed »

anitil wrote: post #12
my123 wrote: post #3

Interesting that Apple still uses Broadcom Wi-Fi + BT chips in most of their product range despite lots of issues with them. Apple Watch nowadays is using Apple (codenamed Marconi) Wi-Fi + BT chips, hopefully they'll switch all their product lineup to those.

What are the issue with Broadcom chips?

Not sure about OP but the hardest part about getting linux on a macbook is getting wifi to work because there are no FOSS drivers.

Re: Wi-Fi packet capturing on M1 Macs is broken

#34

Post by zodiakzz »

SilverRed wrote: post #33
anitil wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the issue with Broadcom chips?

Not sure about OP but the hardest part about getting linux on a macbook is getting wifi to work because there are no FOSS drivers.

Genuinely curious, is it harder than getting Linux working with the proprietary Apple variant of ARM? Or are you talking pre-M1?

Re: Wi-Fi packet capturing on M1 Macs is broken

#35

Post by ndesaulniers »

QuercusMax wrote: post #28
totetsu wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marconi is named after inventor of the radio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guglielmo_Marconi?wprov=sfla1

I know it's not pronounced like that in Italian, but I always read his name as "Googly-Elmo" Marconi.

Wow. I can't unsee that.

Re: Wi-Fi packet capturing on M1 Macs is broken

#36

Post by wumpus »

ndesaulniers wrote: post #35
QuercusMax wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's not pronounced like that in Italian, but I always read his name as "Googly-Elmo" Marconi.

Wow. I can't unsee that.

That just wrecked my ability to say the name of a prominent 15th century Italian dance master.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guglielmo_Ebreo_da_Pesaro

Re: Wi-Fi packet capturing on M1 Macs is broken

#37

Post by ben-schaaf »

zodiakzz wrote: post #34
SilverRed wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about OP but the hardest part about getting linux on a macbook is getting wifi to work because there are no FOSS drivers.

Genuinely curious, is it harder than getting Linux working with the proprietary Apple variant of ARM? Or are you talking pre-M1?

The M1 still uses a broadcom wifi chip: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25669358, so presumably because it's a newer chip it'll be more difficult.

Re: Wi-Fi packet capturing on M1 Macs is broken

#38

Post by acdha »

AlexandrB wrote: post #10
faitswulff wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to wonder if all issues with Apple's software quality are due to Apple redirecting resources to gracefully handling the Apple silicon transfer.

macOS quality has been declining for years. It can't all be due to the M1 transition.

This is a popular trope but I’d really want to see some supporting data. It’s notoriously hard to correct for only hearing from people who found something they don’t like, people assuming their experience is universally shared, and for people to tend to forget old problems.

Re: Wi-Fi packet capturing on M1 Macs is broken

#39

Post by S_A_P »

AlexandrB wrote: post #10
faitswulff wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to wonder if all issues with Apple's software quality are due to Apple redirecting resources to gracefully handling the Apple silicon transfer.

macOS quality has been declining for years. It can't all be due to the M1 transition.

You would think that with each release being so much worse than previous versions that eventually OSX would quit booting up and become nothing more than a proof of concept.

So much hyperbole in this thread. A solid subset of users declares that the sky is falling and this is the end for Apple. Rinse and repeat with each iteration. I am not saying there haven’t been missteps, but it ain’t all bad. My personal experience with Big Sur has largely been a non event and I have tons of boutique usb synthesizers audio interfaces and software. I use windows Mac and dabble in a few Linux distros. None are perfect but they’re all pretty good.

Re: Wi-Fi packet capturing on M1 Macs is broken

#40

Post by cptskippy »

anitil wrote: post #12
my123 wrote: post #3

Interesting that Apple still uses Broadcom Wi-Fi + BT chips in most of their product range despite lots of issues with them. Apple Watch nowadays is using Apple (codenamed Marconi) Wi-Fi + BT chips, hopefully they'll switch all their product lineup to those.

What are the issue with Broadcom chips?

Broadcom chips aren't very well regarded in PC Gaming or Server enthusiast markets either, they're a step above Realtek. Oddly Intel is well regarded though...

It mostly comes down to drivers from what I understand but I'm not entirely familiar with all the objections.

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