Yayagram • Hacker News Board

Re: Yayagram

#81

Post by frereubu » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 8:47 PM UTC

boatsie wrote: post #59

nicoburns wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to try him with a password manager.

It seems tempting to solve technological problems with more technology, but my experience is more technology is more problems. The password manager will update/ask for updates. It will ask about auto fill or saving passwords, etc. The people with password understanding problems definitely don’t understand password management problems!

1Password has worked well for my 90-year-old mother. I disabled the "ask to save password" option. If she needs a new account on something - which doesn't happen very often - I just use Screen Sharing (we both have Macs) and set it up for her. I also have her 1Password account syncing to mine. Although I do still get support phone calls when there's a glitch, it's worked out very well on balance, compared to the amount of support she needed before with account setup and not using the same password everywhere.

Re: Yayagram

#82

Post by khazhoux » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 8:51 PM UTC

frereubu wrote: post #77

khazhoux wrote: post #71

I only wish it weren't named Yaya, as I hate promoting the idea that old women are the pinnacle of technological ineptness. I know that wasn't the intent, but still. It's unfortunately a common expression to say "This product is so easy, even your grandmother can use it!" As if the only group more incompetent than old people, is old women (or, if you prefer, the only group more incompetent than women are old women).…

I get what you're saying, but it's a one-off thing that the guy built especially for his Yaya.

Totally get that. My point is that "Even your grandmother can use it" is still a common saying, combining both sexism and agism, and we should stop promoting that notion.

To illustrate this, if it was this guy's uncle who was techno-challenged and he named it "Unclegram", probably most people would be scratching their heads. But we see Yayagram and it "makes sense"... because of course grandmothers struggle with technology! See the problem?

Re: Yayagram

#83

Post by roamingryan » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 8:51 PM UTC

I built out a simple "technology access" solution for my late grandma about five years ago. It was just some simple scripts running on a raspberry pi. The scripts would fetch emails from a gmail account, extract the attachments, and display them on loop. The subject line of the email, sender and the date were overlayed on the image.

The advantage over those IoT picture frame products was that I could use any display I wanted. A cheap 32" TV was perfect. This was key as her vision degraded. The approach also allowed anyone in the family with email to send her photos, no proprietary apps or accounts required.

She passed away mid-Covid and I didn't get to see her in her final 6 months, but she always bragged of her "picture machine." I think she was the envy of many of her fellow nursing home residents!

Re: Yayagram

#84

Post by frereubu » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 8:51 PM UTC

Leherenn wrote: post #67

nerdponx wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe all their preconceived notions cause a mental barrier for some older folks in adopting new technology? I've observed this as well. The hardest part are the basic concepts. Examples: - The idea of a "settings menu" itself is somewhat of an alien concept and mostly limited to devices with screens. - Not all UI elements have obvious meanings if you aren't already used to them. - The input device itself might be un…

I don't know, a common issue I have seen is pointing the camera towards their face during a video call. These are people that have been taking pictures with regular cameras for decades, but give them a smartphone and they can't target their face to save their lives. They're not stupid, and I don't think it's a new concept, it's just digital instead of analogic. But a lot of older people struggle, I don't understand.

A regular camera has one function - to take photos of what it's pointing at. Phone cameras are often hidden in the screen of a device that does a huge number of different things.

Re: Yayagram

#85

Post by SavantIdiot » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 8:53 PM UTC

Two interesting things about this project.

1. Just about 100% of the code already existed, it just needed to be stuck together in a classy box. That's pretty damn cool: there's no need to re-invent the wheel for some advanced components, and it means more sophisticated ideas can be built quickly.

2. This has been posted 11 times on HN and it finally went viral: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=yayagram

Re: Yayagram

#86

Post by khazhoux » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 8:53 PM UTC

gordian-mind wrote: post #80

bozzcl wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you know that wasn't the intent, why make this complaint at all?

This type of bland complaint is just a common way nowadays to signal that you are part of the In-group, that cares about people.

I can assure you that I am not luxuriating in the benefits and privileges of this fabled "In-group", and that I'm only trying to draw attention to the fact that the common expression "So simple even your grandmother will understand it" is demeaning to both women and old people. Clearly you don't care about that, so there's little for us to discuss.

Re: Yayagram

#87

Post by Ashanmaril » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 8:54 PM UTC

khazhoux wrote: post #71

I only wish it weren't named Yaya, as I hate promoting the idea that old women are the pinnacle of technological ineptness. I know that wasn't the intent, but still. It's unfortunately a common expression to say "This product is so easy, even your grandmother can use it!" As if the only group more incompetent than old people, is old women (or, if you prefer, the only group more incompetent than women are old women).…

"Gram" also means grandma. The full English translation of this name is "Gramgram"

Re: Yayagram

#88

Post by SavantIdiot » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 8:54 PM UTC

khazhoux wrote: post #71

I only wish it weren't named Yaya, as I hate promoting the idea that old women are the pinnacle of technological ineptness. I know that wasn't the intent, but still. It's unfortunately a common expression to say "This product is so easy, even your grandmother can use it!" As if the only group more incompetent than old people, is old women (or, if you prefer, the only group more incompetent than women are old women).…

Agreed. The "even a mom can do it" is broken on so many levels. There's a documentary about the developers of Mozilla, and one of them makes a comment while golfing (I think) in response to this cliche. He says, "My mother writes optimizing compilers." Can't remember the film or the person, but they were wearing launch t-shirts that read "zaro boogs" (zero bugs) still sticks in my head.

EDIT: Pretty sure it was "Code Rush", 2000. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_Rush

Re: Yayagram

#89

Post by khazhoux » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 8:55 PM UTC

bozzcl wrote: post #76

khazhoux wrote: post #71

I only wish it weren't named Yaya, as I hate promoting the idea that old women are the pinnacle of technological ineptness. I know that wasn't the intent, but still. It's unfortunately a common expression to say "This product is so easy, even your grandmother can use it!" As if the only group more incompetent than old people, is old women (or, if you prefer, the only group more incompetent than women are old women).…

If you know that wasn't the intent, why make this complaint at all?

When people use the expression "So simple even your grandmother will understand it" I don't think they are trying to insult anyone. But... it is an insult, whether it was meant that way or not.

Re: Yayagram

#90

Post by frereubu » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 8:56 PM UTC

khazhoux wrote: post #82

frereubu wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you're saying, but it's a one-off thing that the guy built especially for his Yaya.

Totally get that. My point is that "Even your grandmother can use it" is still a common saying, combining both sexism and agism, and we should stop promoting that notion. To illustrate this, if it was this guy's uncle who was techno-challenged and he named it "Unclegram", probably most people would be scratching their heads. But we see Yayagram and it "makes sense"... because of course grandmothers struggle with tech…

Absolutely. I'm very sensitive to that kind of thing because I have a 90-year-old mother who I hate people writing off like that. But unless I missed it he doesn't say "Even your grandmother can use it" in his thread does he? I just feel like you're picking the wrong item to hang this argument from.