Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves • Hacker News Board

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#31

Post by cavisne » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:43 PM UTC

CarelessExpert wrote: post #17

There's something unexpected about this aspect of veganism, which is often embraced by those wanting to lead a healthier lifestyle, resulting in the development of more and more advanced food processing technologies designed to synthesize the experience of foods being excluded from the diet. Basically, in the quest to return to a more healthy, natural diet, some folks end up moving to foods that are more and more pro…

The justification is that they are temporary/bridging foods while transitioning to a whole foods diet.

There is not much evidence of this working among vegan influencers (who fill their videos with meat and dairy mimicking meals) but that could be distorted by most product placements being such foods.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#32

Post by InitialLastName » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:44 PM UTC

hvna wrote: post #20

CarelessExpert wrote: post #17

There's something unexpected about this aspect of veganism, which is often embraced by those wanting to lead a healthier lifestyle, resulting in the development of more and more advanced food processing technologies designed to synthesize the experience of foods being excluded from the diet. Basically, in the quest to return to a more healthy, natural diet, some folks end up moving to foods that are more and more pro…

This is something I've noticed as well. Sometimes ingredient lists are a mile long. Less so here in Europe than what I've seen in America, but nevertheless it is shockingly less natural. I have always though that it makes more sense to just create vegan foods from what you have rather than recreating the things you are choosing not to eat. Warning though, I am not a part of the vegan club, so it is all just opinion.

To some extent, it's an attempt to partake in the wider food culture while still following stricter ethical guidelines than those food cultures developed in.

Most of the vegans I know can nutrition themselves capably using non-imitation food, but still want to be able to have a pizza on occasion.

As much as some in the hackerverse like to pretend it doesn't, eating is both an emotional and an expressive experience for some people. Expecting everyone to be a rational actor in the food world is approximately as reasonable as expecting them to be rational actors in the dating world.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#33

Post by autarch » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:44 PM UTC

CarelessExpert wrote: post #17

There's something unexpected about this aspect of veganism, which is often embraced by those wanting to lead a healthier lifestyle, resulting in the development of more and more advanced food processing technologies designed to synthesize the experience of foods being excluded from the diet. Basically, in the quest to return to a more healthy, natural diet, some folks end up moving to foods that are more and more pro…

> There's something unexpected about this aspect of veganism, which is often embraced by those wanting to lead a healthier lifestyle ...

I'm not sure what you base this statement on. There are many people whose initial motivations for going vegan were ethical, either to avoid funding animal abuse, environmental degradation, or both.

That was why I went vegan 23.5 years ago, and why I'm still vegan. I eat mock meat and non-dairy cheese because these taste like foods I liked before I went vegan. I didn't stop eating meat and cheese because I thought it tasted bad! I loved it, but I hate what went into its production. Now I can have the foods I like without the negative externalities. That's perfect!

That said, my palette has expanded hugely since I first went vegetarian, and I also enjoy all sorts of things I used to really dislike, including more whole foods type dishes, and even raw food.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#34

Post by dokem » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:45 PM UTC

CarelessExpert wrote: post #17

There's something unexpected about this aspect of veganism, which is often embraced by those wanting to lead a healthier lifestyle, resulting in the development of more and more advanced food processing technologies designed to synthesize the experience of foods being excluded from the diet. Basically, in the quest to return to a more healthy, natural diet, some folks end up moving to foods that are more and more pro…

Yea I don't really get the whole 'health food tech' industry. When I want to feel good or lose weight: Chicken breast, vegetables, water, nuts, rice. It's the same old story, people want to be healthy and diet without actually doing any of that or give up the idea that every meal is supposed to be a treat.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#35

Post by rorykoehler » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:45 PM UTC

king_magic wrote: post #25

jjcon wrote: post #2

> Vegan Cheese Is Ready to Compete With Dairy. Is the World Ready to Eat It? I’m vegetarian and my partner is vegan - I’ve tried every vegan cheese on the shelf. The answer is no because it’s not even close to ready. It might pass an initial taste test where you say, that’s not so bad, but then you pick up on all the things it’s missing. Sometimes the aftertaste is terrible, sometimes the texture or versatility. Mayb…

Yep, they are all atrocious at this stage. Orders of magnitude worse than Beyond Beef* / Impossible* (as compared to actual meat). *just to be clear, I actually love both Beyond & Impossible's products. Extremely close to real meat IMO.

I have eaten some that will easily surpass anything you will find in an American convenience store. Sure they aren’t for aficionados but that pass for accompaniment on wraps etc.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#36

Post by jchanimal » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:45 PM UTC

jjcon wrote: post #19

pcthrowaway wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which brands have you tried? There's a wild diversity, and I suspect even with dairy cheeses you could try many kinds and think it's "missing" something (compared to another type of cheese, or even the same cheese from a different producer) For example, a (dairy) farmer's cheese is going to be completely different from a blue cheese, which is completely different from a sharp cheddar. Each of those is "missing" somet…

> Which brands have you tried? More than I could possibly recall. Violife, chao, follow your heart, miyokos, daiya, parmellas, go veggie, kite hill, Trader Joe’s brand > For some kinds of cheese, people actually find them indistinguishable from the classic dairy versions Not a chance that I believe this. Maybe as a minor ingredient in a larger meal but certainly not as a main ingredient or on its own.

Agree. However a homemade “cashew cheese” (flavor from nutritional yeast, cayenne, and turmeric) can be yummier than cheese, if not totally realistic. Why the store brands can’t meet that quality I don’t know.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#37

Post by tartoran » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:45 PM UTC

jjcon wrote: post #2

> Vegan Cheese Is Ready to Compete With Dairy. Is the World Ready to Eat It? I’m vegetarian and my partner is vegan - I’ve tried every vegan cheese on the shelf. The answer is no because it’s not even close to ready. It might pass an initial taste test where you say, that’s not so bad, but then you pick up on all the things it’s missing. Sometimes the aftertaste is terrible, sometimes the texture or versatility. Mayb…

> The answer is no, it’s not even close to ready. It might pass an initial taste test where you say, that’s not so bad, but then you pick up on all the things it’s missing.

I tried these and agree. My wife is vegetarian and I started to rarely eat meat but cheeses are still a staple in our house. However, vegetarian burgers are ready for prime time. They are my new thing, if you didn't tell I'm eating vegetarian burgers I would swear I'm eating meat.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#38

Post by redisman » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:46 PM UTC

jjcon wrote: post #2

> Vegan Cheese Is Ready to Compete With Dairy. Is the World Ready to Eat It? I’m vegetarian and my partner is vegan - I’ve tried every vegan cheese on the shelf. The answer is no because it’s not even close to ready. It might pass an initial taste test where you say, that’s not so bad, but then you pick up on all the things it’s missing. Sometimes the aftertaste is terrible, sometimes the texture or versatility. Mayb…

I’m also all in on the fake veggie meats but have not had a good cheese experience even in vegan restaurants. It’s always some strange bean sludge/mat.

Would love to be proven wrong!

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#39

Post by La1n » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:46 PM UTC

CarelessExpert wrote: post #27

gameswithgo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ingredient list of an apple is also miles long if you are forced to write it out, you just aren't. There are a million different things "processing" can mean. It can be as innocuous as just chopping something up, or complicated like pickling. Not all of it is bad.

Certainly true. But, as an example, the Impossible Burger notably has more fat and significantly more salt than its meat-based brethren. Sure, it may be purchased due to a perceived variety of other benefits (sustainability, animal rights, etc) totally unrelated to the healthiness of the product, but it's objectively not a healthier option.

>objectively not a healthier option.

I am not saying you are wrong, but there is a whole lot more to "healthiness" than amount of fat and salt.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#40

Post by CarelessExpert » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:47 PM UTC

cavisne wrote: post #31

CarelessExpert wrote: post #17

There's something unexpected about this aspect of veganism, which is often embraced by those wanting to lead a healthier lifestyle, resulting in the development of more and more advanced food processing technologies designed to synthesize the experience of foods being excluded from the diet. Basically, in the quest to return to a more healthy, natural diet, some folks end up moving to foods that are more and more pro…

The justification is that they are temporary/bridging foods while transitioning to a whole foods diet. There is not much evidence of this working among vegan influencers (who fill their videos with meat and dairy mimicking meals) but that could be distorted by most product placements being such foods.

I wonder about that claim.

I've never seen the Impossible Burger, for example, pitched as a bridging mechanism. It seems to be purely about food substitution with no expectation that someone would phase that substitute out as they adapt to a plant-based diet.

I feel like the pitch is "hey look, you can be vegan/vegetarian and not miss the meat-based foods you love so much!" i.e., you can have your vegetarian cake and eat it, too.

But that then gets back to, why switch at all? If it's about ethics, these products make sense. If it's about health, it makes a lot less sense to me.