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New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

ethicalsystems.org

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Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#341

Post by thrwyoilarticle »

baobabKoodaa wrote: post #211
frereubu wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's an unfair characterisation. I read it as the commenter using racism purely as an example where reduced diversity of opinion towards no racism is a good thing, not saying that all opponents of diversity are racist.

The commenter picked racism as an example, because they think viewpoint diversity is bad, and racism is a good example of a "bad" viewpoint.

I interpreted it as them picking an example that most people would agree is bad. Taking something to its logical extremes is a natural part of exploring its consequences.

Fewer people thinking that the Earth is flat would also be a reduction in viewpoint diversity.

OP has tried to make one point about the poor logic of the headline & you shut them down & refused to deal with the argument because you inferred the posit that racism is bad as them calling people who disagree with them racist. That's not you engaging with diverse viewpoints.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#343

Post by dustinmoris »

livinginfear wrote: post #80

I consider myself a very politically informed person. I'm not a politically active person however, largely for the reasons mentioned in the article. I considered myself a liberal by the standards of the time I grew up in. My views on some social issues, particularly 'free speech', are considered a conservative now. I am one of the people the article is concerning who will not publicly voice their political opinions i…

> I feel as though I am more open-minded than many others. I am always ready to be corrected if I am wrong, and I am always willing to discuss my views with people subscribing to other political ideologies. However, I fear the repercussions of offending others who do not have an open mind.

This is how every open and critically minded person feels nowadays.

There is a clear line between two groups:

1. People who think the best way to learn, educate and explore other people's views is by having an open discussion, saying uncomfortable things and having an ear to be corrected and showing mutual respect.

2. People who think that saying something uncomfortable during a discussion is an act of offence itself and therefore must be muted even if it takes some form of aggression by one or many people in order to mute that person. A discourse is only allowed if people immediately subscribe to a specific ideological idea and people are not allowed to get to that point through saying or asking the wrong things but must somehow be born with those views or otherwise need to be extinguished by the mob.

Unfortunately the 2. group is getting increasingly more violent and aggressive in their approach which makes the 1. group increasingly more aware that they are in fact in danger to just be themselves and learn about life through sometimes tough discourse or mistakes.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#344

Post by thrwyoilarticle »

emerged wrote: post #254
callamdelaney wrote: post #138

Is there a way we can detect these people and not hire them? It takes enough restraint to refrain from commenting on rampant virtue signalling on LinkedIn and I often fail. Having to deal with it at work would be a step too far.

I simply unfriended everyone online who virtue signals and/or engages in hostile politics. That includes some family members. If asked, it’s simple enough to explain calmly and honestly.

That sounds a lot like you restricting the viewpoint diversity of your social circle.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#345

Post by efaref »

M2Ys4U wrote: post #255
efaref wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really sure what the amendments to the US constitution have to do with a post about British workplaces, but I think you have a very different view on "freedom of speech" than the classically liberal one that it is arguably founded upon. That's OK, of course. In the UK we don't have and have never had freedom of speech. In fact, we have some of the harshest libel laws in the world. There are very many conseque…

>In the UK we don't have and have never had freedom of speech. That's not true - we do have freedom of speech. It's just not absolute freedom of speech, which is a frankly horrible idea, because absolute rights almost always undermine other rights. (As an example, absolute freedom of speech would preclude all rights to privacy and confidentiality.) What we have is a framework of fundamental rights, most of which are…

In the UK we have limited freedom of expression (under S10 of the Human Rights Act 1998), which is much more narrowly defined, and even then subject to many restrictions and limitations (libel, court privilege, hate speech, and more). It doesn't really qualify as "freedom of speech" in the sense that really matters for this discussion.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#346

Post by throwaway894345 »

blueflow wrote: post #316
Tycho wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lot of advice floating about the workplace these days along the lines of be candid, join the conversation, bring your whole self to work, etc. The people giving this advice seem to have no conception that not everyone actively engaged in these topics is acting in 100% good faith. Being too open could so easily backfire. Encouraging this is borderline negligent. Indeed there’s entire branches of activism that rest on…

I never got what people mean with "bad faith" stuff. Like its some inherently bad kind of behaviors and ideas? Can you explain it to me like im 5? The worst that i can think of is that people are hiding their true interests and thus lying to you.

The idea is that people are engaging with no interest in making society better. An example might be a person who advocates for policies that are almost certainly harmful to the communities he purports to care about because his rhetoric draws favor (i.e., social capital) from others of his well-to-do segment of the political spectrum. The chief idea is that someone is plainly not interested in addressing the problem they purport to care about, but that they want the benefits of virtue signaling or else the “politics as tribal sport” element or a fondness for malice and divisiveness.

To be really clear, I’m not making a veiled political statement—I can think of a dozen ways this could fit a bad faith person on either side of the spectrum.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#347

Post by thrwyoilarticle »

nraynaud wrote: post #220

Remember that the conservative cancel culture uses anti-terror tools : secret lists, administrative persecutions, and other sneaky means. Do not believe that cancel culture is a left leaning trope.

Mary Whitehouse's cancel culture was rewarded with a CBE.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#348

Post by da_big_ghey »

zxzax wrote: post #72
ryan93 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you don’t work there anymore you can name them or at least the company

Without getting into the details, I don't think anyone here has to worry about becoming a victim of these persons, being accidentally hired by these persons, or accidentally doing business with them to the point where it supports their activities. I wouldn't mention it if I thought it was still an issue.

why would you not mention if it still an issue? if you are not fight against, are you not a complicit?

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#349

Post by thrwyoilarticle »

dagothur wrote: post #217

It might be true that opposing some progressive social issues (which ones?) could get you in trouble in the workplace, but it's always been true that expressing economic left wing views will get you in trouble. Try telling your boss that personal wealth should be capped and heavily redistributed, or that their industry would be better off nationalized, or any of a number of socialist views, and you may get fired as w…

Try advocating for a union.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#350

Post by Tycho »

blueflow wrote: post #316
Tycho wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lot of advice floating about the workplace these days along the lines of be candid, join the conversation, bring your whole self to work, etc. The people giving this advice seem to have no conception that not everyone actively engaged in these topics is acting in 100% good faith. Being too open could so easily backfire. Encouraging this is borderline negligent. Indeed there’s entire branches of activism that rest on…

I never got what people mean with "bad faith" stuff. Like its some inherently bad kind of behaviors and ideas? Can you explain it to me like im 5? The worst that i can think of is that people are hiding their true interests and thus lying to you.

When their actions/interests are less noble than what their words imply. For instance, using statistics and evidence to make a judgment seem objective, but knowingly leaving out other evidence that contradicts their position, especially when political association can be used to attack anyone who does bring up that evidence. Or asking that people “simply be aware” of their own prejudices, but in practice they are only interested in deconstructing the prejudices of one particular group, and would react furiously if another group was targeted. Pretending that everything is just a level playing field of debate, when they know that it isn’t, and they like it that way.
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