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New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

ethicalsystems.org

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Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#71

Post by axguscbklp »

dang wrote: post #54
axguscbklp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are now at the point that any further attempt to eliminate racism by force comes at the cost of suppressing accurate perceptions of reality. At what point would it stop being worth it to you to get rid of some small additional number of racists if the cost is massive damage to free speech and rational investigation of reality? Also, are there really "fewer racists than ever" now? Anti-white racism has been on the…

> Anti-white racism [...] progressive anti-white racism That seriously breaks HN's rule against flamebait. Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. It just points the site hellward https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: we've warned you about exactly this before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23453371 . Needing two warnings about something like that is an extremely bad sign. Please d…

I do not see why it is flamebait any more than discussion of anti-nonwhite racism, which is common on this site, is flamebait. My intent is neither to flame nor to bait and I did not come in to a non-political topic and make it political. Unless I am misreading something, it seems to me that as far as you are concerned certain opinions on this topic are taboo. Fair enough, I will not bother you again with it, but it does seem to me that you are judging based on my viewpoint, not based on my attitude or tone or intent.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#72

Post by zxzax »

ryan93 wrote: post #66
zxzax wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have literally had employers say to my face that they will not hire people of certain races, or have them as customers. Thankfully I don't work for any of those people anymore.

Since you don’t work there anymore you can name them or at least the company

Without getting into the details, I don't think anyone here has to worry about becoming a victim of these persons, being accidentally hired by these persons, or accidentally doing business with them to the point where it supports their activities. I wouldn't mention it if I thought it was still an issue.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#73

Post by Huwyt_Nashi036 »

laurencerowe wrote: post #11

This article suffers from the assumption that all viewpoints are symmetrical. Supporting discrimination in the workplace and opposing it are not equally acceptable political perspectives. Equating the two from a management perspective as equally problematic is simply absurd. Excluding racists from the workplace is not the same as excluding people based on their race. The first excludes a section of the workforce and…

>Excluding racists from the workplace is not [excluding] a section of the workforce

I think you disproved your own point.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#76

Post by whoknowswhat11 »

laurencerowe wrote: post #11

This article suffers from the assumption that all viewpoints are symmetrical. Supporting discrimination in the workplace and opposing it are not equally acceptable political perspectives. Equating the two from a management perspective as equally problematic is simply absurd. Excluding racists from the workplace is not the same as excluding people based on their race. The first excludes a section of the workforce and…

racism = judging people / taking actions based on race.

Reality in many workplaces is that the racists making decisions based on race are on the left these days - not the right.

When you say exclude folks who practice racism you need to be very careful. I've no problem with affirmative action, but running around saying folks making judgements based on race should be excluded from the workplace will do a LOT of harm to diversity efforts which generally explicitly recognize race and take actions around race.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#77

Post by visarga »

treeman79 wrote: post #48
monoideism wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having an outsider's viewpoint is going to be extremely valuable in the coming years, but it's currently out of fashion. This is wishful thinking, and I've seen no indication that the current groupthink is going to do anything but grow more dominant.

Had to leave one job already. Bashing white people on company meetings while going on about wonderfully diverse they were. Their disdain in having to hire a white guy was constant. Product was falling apart since they had nothing but juniors of the correct races sexes and orientations.

> Bashing white people on company meetings

Isn't that open racism? Or is it ok because it's compensating for historical racism?

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#78

Post by visarga »

whoknowswhat11 wrote: post #76
laurencerowe wrote: post #11

This article suffers from the assumption that all viewpoints are symmetrical. Supporting discrimination in the workplace and opposing it are not equally acceptable political perspectives. Equating the two from a management perspective as equally problematic is simply absurd. Excluding racists from the workplace is not the same as excluding people based on their race. The first excludes a section of the workforce and…

racism = judging people / taking actions based on race. Reality in many workplaces is that the racists making decisions based on race are on the left these days - not the right. When you say exclude folks who practice racism you need to be very careful. I've no problem with affirmative action, but running around saying folks making judgements based on race should be excluded from the workplace will do a LOT of harm t…

Fixed that for you:

> racism = judging people / taking actions based on race, but only if you are white

It goes even further than that - anything that supports the dominant class - technology, science, logic, math and even common sense concepts in language - are considered racist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5uXpwoq0_M

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#79

Post by jollybean »

wpietri wrote: post #13

Funny that they don't mention what "certain, commonplace views" people "stay silent" about. That might put a different spin on things. As I mentioned [1] about the Basecamp debacle, you can't get full "viewpoint diversity" and full "identity diversity" because some viewpoints are hostile to some identities. Given our society's long history of those viewpoints being endemic, and given the slow movement away from ident…

The most newly contentious formerly 'commonplace view' is the position that 'we should treat people for who they are, not for their race, gender' etc..

This is actually the fault line between classical progressives and newer groups. CRT hinges on the notion that groups are marginalized in a million unseen ways, in which case, one simply cannot ignore anothers race, rather one must make assumptions about that person's group characteristics to inform one's judgement, presumably, empathetically.

So MLK's famous proclamation: "I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character" ... is now effectively a 'problematic' signal for one group, it's now 'out group behaviour' in their view.

I don't have a problem at all with those seeking to think they are actively helping, but am very opposed to the intolerance and absolution implied by those groups who can no longer accept those abiding by MLK's virtues.

It's very odd because most people over a certain age have spent their life being told about those virtues, and are now told that it's 'unacceptable'.

Edit: I should add, the degree of intolerance of these views is expressed by the sanctioning of certain kinds of workplace diversity programs (CRT), which are of course 'required training' in many companies and government sectors. [1]

[1] https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/only-white-people-can-b...

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#80

Post by livinginfear »

I consider myself a very politically informed person. I'm not a politically active person however, largely for the reasons mentioned in the article.

I considered myself a liberal by the standards of the time I grew up in. My views on some social issues, particularly 'free speech', are considered a conservative now. I am one of the people the article is concerning who will not publicly voice their political opinions in the workplace for fear of potential repercussions. One thing that particularly upsets me, is how willingly other people bring up politically sensitive issues in the workplace. I regularly hear woefully uninformed diatribes on geopolitics and American domestic politics (I do not live in America) in the workplace. Even correcting people who are clearly misinformed on clear matters of fact can cause offense. As a result, I do not enter into such discussions.

I feel as though I am more open-minded than many others. I am always ready to be corrected if I am wrong, and I am always willing to discuss my views with people subscribing to other political ideologies. However, I fear the repercussions of offending others who do not have an open mind. I also feel as though many politically active people are not acting in good faith. I feel that the safest option I will not regret is not to engage.

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