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New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

ethicalsystems.org

61–70 of 734 posts

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#61

This article suffers from the assumption that all viewpoints are symmetrical. Supporting discrimination in the workplace and opposing it are not equally acceptable political perspectives. Equating the two from a management perspective as equally problematic is simply absurd. Excluding racists from the workplace is not the same as excluding people based on their race. The first excludes a section of the workforce and…

There is no evidence that article implies the workplace, or even society at large, is divided between those who 'support negative discrimination' and those who don't.

The very presumption of this is a kind of a problematic radicalism.

Almost everyone wants people to be treated fairly and with dignity, it's just the 'equity' types think that is still a problem, and that other things should be done.

Paradoxically, it is the '13%' who want us to use race, gender and other artifacts as primary elements of professional identity for hiring, promotion, delegation etc..

Edit: I should add, I don't have a problem with the 13% view that they think they should 'do more'. I'm 'part' of the 13% in that sense. What I'm (very) against is the intolerance and absolution that anyone who doesn't share their agenda is problematic, immoral etc..

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#62
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The presumption that the world can be divided in to "progressive activists" and "racists" probably has a lot to do with the reason people don't want to express diverse political opinions at work.

That's true... but so does the presumption that the world can be divided up into races based on the superiority of certain races over other races. And that expands beyond expressing political opinions. When management is labeling your entire being and your whole family as inferior, it sucks to even be at work. Edit: I don't mean to oversimplify, it's not just an issue of casual racism, for some things it's life and d…

Evidence of managements labeling your family as inferior?

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#63
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the same reason I always look skeptically on other research about "polarization". The trend tends to be that in the past it was common for otherwise-sane people to advocate crazy stuff like bans on interracial marriage. Now the only people who are against interracial marriage are straight-ticket crazy people, and this sorting of society is superficially "polarization" but I can't find the negative in it, because…

Replace interracial marriage with something like abolish the police. Is the ethical/sane choice still clear cut?

More importantly, most of us hold moral judgements that our grandchildren will find horrifying, and it's a tautology that we're unable to see our moral blind spots (or have a good guess where they are). I'm happily in an interracial marriage, but I'm not sure that I would have been in favor of (or even neutral toward) interracial marriage had I been a product of the culture a century earlier.

I'm very glad we've made moral progress as a culture, and that progress has required some voices in the wilderness speaking out. History has shown that these moral errors aren't all attributable to one side of the political isle, either.

We should have some humility in our policies. Almost all of us are on the wrong side of history in ways we are blind to. An absolute belief of being on the right side of history has lead to most of the major disasters of the last century.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#64
post #62
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true... but so does the presumption that the world can be divided up into races based on the superiority of certain races over other races. And that expands beyond expressing political opinions. When management is labeling your entire being and your whole family as inferior, it sucks to even be at work. Edit: I don't mean to oversimplify, it's not just an issue of casual racism, for some things it's life and d…

Evidence of managements labeling your family as inferior?

I have literally had employers say to my face that they will not hire people of certain races, or have them as customers. Thankfully I don't work for any of those people anymore.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#65
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why this is not automatically killed by bot? But the other reasonable comment by "notsureaboutpg" was? The bot is stupid.

One account is banned and the other not. There's no bot trying to decide what comments are "reasonable"—that would indeed be stupid.

Thanks for your response. I thought the one line offensive response would be easily picked by the bot. But of course I don't know how the bot works.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#66
post #64
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evidence of managements labeling your family as inferior?

I have literally had employers say to my face that they will not hire people of certain races, or have them as customers. Thankfully I don't work for any of those people anymore.

Since you don’t work there anymore you can name them or at least the company

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#67

We'll see more companies go the way of Coinbase and Basecamp. Companies sidetracked with politics will bleed the apolitical.

I don't understand what you mean by "go the way", most places I've worked it is the way and always has been. Keeping politics and religion out of the workplace is just called "being professional". Seems like we're just rediscovering why things are that way.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#68
You choose your political views about as much as you choose your sexual orientation. There are genetic factors, childhood influences, etc. It's even likely to correlate somewhat with your particular combination of race and location - for example, an ethnic Swede might see a strong border and tight immigration controls as essential for the survival and prosperity of his culture and people; an Ethiopian might see an open Swedish border with very lax immigration controls as an incredible opportunity to improve the lot of his own kind. Criminally, we call the first a "racist".

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#69
"In the United Kingdom, most people don’t feel comfortable bringing their whole selves to work. For two-thirds of the population, talking politics sincerely, on the job, is uncomfortable."

I don't live in the UK but have been there many times including having worked there and I believe this view is reasonably commonplace elsewhere, especially so in all Anglophone countries. I've always been a highly political person even to the extent of having studied Political Science as part of Philosophy Studies and I would also strongly agree with the article's third sentence which concludes that 'People who hold certain, commonplace views, stay silent believing that expressing those views will carry penalty not reward'.

Even with my strong political views, I've always applied that rule of not discussing politics and religion when in the company of the majority of people I know, and especially so in the workplace environment. In fact, my posts here on HN are about as political as I get in public, as I know that even the few who know that I post on HN would never bother to read my comments anyway—as they are just not interested in discussing politics.

Even those who hold similar political positions to me will not engage in or sustain a discussion on a political matter for very long. Thus, I'd not only agree with the Ethical Systems blog that 'workplaces are losing their viewpoint diversity' but I'd also suggest that this position holds generally across the whole population. Moreover, I also add that this view of keeping quiet is much more commonplace nowadays than it was decades ago during the 1960s when my politics were forming. That said, back then there was not the same degree of polarization as there is now—and when it existed it was cleanly divided along the well defined political left-right axis. These days, an axis of view can exist on any number of subjects and it's this wide diversity that's a large part of the problem. Many people are becoming even more timid and thus unprepared to discuss their views, as now there is increased potential to tread on someone's political toes.

It's clear to me why this problem exists and it's because our societies are now much more culturally diverse and far less homogeneous than they were when I was a kid. Back then, many of the issues that confront us today were essentially unknown let alone the subject of hot political discussion—unlike many of those of today where everyone is forced to engage in and espouse the politically correct position whether they like doing so or not.

For example, in the '50s it was just accepted that women stayed home and minded the kids; there was no problem in discussing Islam or Moslems as there were essentially none in Western society; and the word 'gay' had a completely different meaning to what it does these days. And as for the subject itself, being completely taboo it was never discussed (in fact, I didn't get to know the word's new connotation and meaning until I was in my late teens). I was like many others, when we found out its new meaning we were somewhat miffed, as we had suddenly lost a valuable word from our vocabulary and there was no replacement. (Back then, there was a subtle but distinct difference between 'gay' and 'happy' that everyone understood, however by the mid 1970s usage of its original meaning had all but disappeared from the language.)

Most of you who will read this weren't even born in the '50s and '60s so it is extremely difficult for me to convey how very different those times were from now. The shifts that have taken place in many societal values have been enormous and I'd venture to say there would be few times in history when values have changed so much and in so many different areas within a single lifetime. Thus, it's little wonder that many people have found it very difficult to adapt to these massive changes. Similarly, the rise of identity politics has further complicated matters as it has added many more threads to the problem.

If one looks at the problem globally, speaking one's mind in public nowadays is fraught with dangers. No wonder that so few actually do so.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#70

'For two-thirds of the population, talking politics sincerely, on the job, is uncomfortable. People who hold certain, commonplace views, stay silent believing that expressing those views will carry penalty not reward. ' This sounds like a recipe for disaster for any company. When I worked in the UK no part of my job description was about 'talking politics sincerely' or sharing my 'commonplace views'. I did that in th…

People with, shall we say, radically progressive views, are more than comfortable to share them openly in the staff rooms, kitchens, before and after meetings, etc. without anybody contending with them. Anybody with more centrist, or God forbid conservative views, saves them for the pub afterwards or for their private gatherings. The Overton window seems to shift weekly.
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