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Eddy Cue wanted to bring iMessage to Android in 2013

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Re: Eddy Cue wanted to bring iMessage to Android in 2013

#131

Post by majjam »

js2 wrote: post #116

> I am concerned [that] iMessage on Android would simply serve to remove an obstacle to iPhone families giving their kids Android phones. We're an iPhone family, but damn is that lame. How about: make the best product. Don't coerce people into buying an iPhone. It drives me crazy how fractured messaging has become. Here's a recent example. My non-technical aunt tried to send a group iMessage to my wife and me. For me…

Would you mind elaborating on why Signal was sub-par? I use it as my main messenger and find it to be fine. There have been issues where older clients couldn’t receive messages and needed to upgrade their phones to fix. And migrating to a new phone is fragile, but everyday messaging seems ok to me.

Edit: honestly the challenge is getting other people to install it

Re: Eddy Cue wanted to bring iMessage to Android in 2013

#132

Post by kop316 »

room500 wrote: post #130
vips7L wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be carrier related but the carriers seem extremely uninterested in solving the sms/mms problem at all.

It is solved if phones use RCS. RCS allows many of the features you love in iMessage - e2e encryption, typing indicators, large files, delivery receipts, reactions, etc. And it is all standards-based and backed by the carriers. Android phones do support RCS. Apple will not implement it. Apple will only support the bare minimum of SMS/MMS and then people wonder why it doesn't work well. Carriers have worked to improve…

> It is solved if phones use RCS.

Unfortunately, if the carriers impose the same attachment limit, it really won't help. The limit on MMS is largely artificial (considering the phone and the MMSC talk HTTP...sending an MMS is literally an HTTP POST).

Re: Eddy Cue wanted to bring iMessage to Android in 2013

#133

Post by room500 »

kop316 wrote: post #132
room500 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is solved if phones use RCS. RCS allows many of the features you love in iMessage - e2e encryption, typing indicators, large files, delivery receipts, reactions, etc. And it is all standards-based and backed by the carriers. Android phones do support RCS. Apple will not implement it. Apple will only support the bare minimum of SMS/MMS and then people wonder why it doesn't work well. Carriers have worked to improve…

> It is solved if phones use RCS. Unfortunately, if the carriers impose the same attachment limit, it really won't help. The limit on MMS is largely artificial (considering the phone and the MMSC talk HTTP...sending an MMS is literally an HTTP POST).

RCS does not use MMS so attachment limits do not apply.

RCS is its own technology. If everyone in a chat uses RCS, SMS and MMS are not used at all. It is like iMessage - but based on an open standard

Re: Eddy Cue wanted to bring iMessage to Android in 2013

#134

Post by rblatz »

kop316 wrote: post #92
prepend wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you likely miss a ton of group chats where there are no android (or Pinephone) users because you’ve been excluded because group chats don’t work fine.

....what? I am honestly having trouble parsing your meaning. My family mostly has iPhones, and we have several group chats with me in it on Group MMS. They work fine.

I bet they also have side groups without you in it for when they want to share videos/photos or not deal with MMS jank. Nothing personal, we had to do the same thing to my brother and his fiance. Group MMS is busted it has inconsistent delivery, videos and images are compressed to the point of being basically worthless. Sometimes I'll get 3 of 4 people's messages leaving me with a partial conversation, then hours later I'll get the 4th person's messages. Sometimes they never come through. Sometimes I just don't get images, sometimes my wife and I will get different parts of the conversation and can piece it together.

And the thing that causes all that friction is including an Android user in the group text. It's entirely not your fault, but also it's very natural for people to want to exclude Android users when the majority of the group uses iPhone.

Re: Eddy Cue wanted to bring iMessage to Android in 2013

#135

Post by [deleted] »

vmception wrote: post #72
jmt_ wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mainly a Gen Z thing I believe (speaking as a member of said generation). Many people my age see their phone numbers as being more private information that should be given to those you trust, so may not want to give out to someone you just met at a bar for example. Instagram can be used as a sort of barrier. Also, each party gets more insight into the others lives by checking out their Instagram account which is usua…

I'm actually begrudgingly graduating from asking for Instagram usernames to asking for TikTok usernames. A lot of Gen Z (18-23) are not using their Instagram accounts, or they have so many instagram accounts that they don't check and it is a high probability that you receive their "thirst trap" account where they just collect followers to look at their body and ignore. Not necessarily to consciously ignore, but just…

[deleted]

Re: Eddy Cue wanted to bring iMessage to Android in 2013

#136

Post by kop316 »

room500 wrote: post #133
kop316 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is solved if phones use RCS. Unfortunately, if the carriers impose the same attachment limit, it really won't help. The limit on MMS is largely artificial (considering the phone and the MMSC talk HTTP...sending an MMS is literally an HTTP POST).

RCS does not use MMS so attachment limits do not apply. RCS is its own technology. If everyone in a chat uses RCS, SMS and MMS are not used at all. It is like iMessage - but based on an open standard

I think you missed my point......

The reason there is an attachment limit is because the carriers enforce it in the first place. It isn't a limitation of the MMS standard.

As such, what would stop carriers from enforcing the exact same limitations on RCS?

Re: Eddy Cue wanted to bring iMessage to Android in 2013

#137

Post by kop316 »

vips7L wrote: post #93
kop316 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I posted a longer explanation here of why that's the case if you're curious why: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26970035 TL;DR: This is carrier related.

It might be carrier related but the carriers seem extremely uninterested in solving the sms/mms problem at all.

In all fairness, the only reason I found this out is through experimentation while I have been working on importing an MMS implimentation.

There isn't really a demand for carriers to increase the limits.

Re: Eddy Cue wanted to bring iMessage to Android in 2013

#138

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

jbigelow76 wrote: post #117
js2 wrote: post #116

> I am concerned [that] iMessage on Android would simply serve to remove an obstacle to iPhone families giving their kids Android phones. We're an iPhone family, but damn is that lame. How about: make the best product. Don't coerce people into buying an iPhone. It drives me crazy how fractured messaging has become. Here's a recent example. My non-technical aunt tried to send a group iMessage to my wife and me. For me…

We're an iPhone family, but damn is that lame. How about: make the best product. Don't coerce people into buying an iPhone. But iMessage isn't the product, it's a feature of the product. They think by not letting those features be available on other platforms they are creating the best product. You can't make the best product while simultaneously commoditizing your differentiators.

I think engendering network effects intentionally is pretty monopolistic. You can't just say, "Hey, but we're not making money from it directly" and get away with that.

Re: Eddy Cue wanted to bring iMessage to Android in 2013

#139

Post by jeromegv »

tw04 wrote: post #123
jbigelow76 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're an iPhone family, but damn is that lame. How about: make the best product. Don't coerce people into buying an iPhone. But iMessage isn't the product, it's a feature of the product. They think by not letting those features be available on other platforms they are creating the best product. You can't make the best product while simultaneously commoditizing your differentiators.

They are repeating RIM's mistakes. It fascinates me they haven't actually jumped on the services train, they just started charging a monthly fee for the walled garden while still focusing on selling product and called it a services play.

So far RIM consumer business went bankrupt and Apple keeps growing quarter after quarter. I would doubt that this strategy, which they have held for a decade on iOS is anything like RIM mistakes.

Re: Eddy Cue wanted to bring iMessage to Android in 2013

#140

Post by kop316 »

rblatz wrote: post #134
kop316 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

....what? I am honestly having trouble parsing your meaning. My family mostly has iPhones, and we have several group chats with me in it on Group MMS. They work fine.

I bet they also have side groups without you in it for when they want to share videos/photos or not deal with MMS jank. Nothing personal, we had to do the same thing to my brother and his fiance. Group MMS is busted it has inconsistent delivery, videos and images are compressed to the point of being basically worthless. Sometimes I'll get 3 of 4 people's messages leaving me with a partial conversation, then hours lat…

I'm really not sure how to respond to this, because you are assuming a lot of unheatlhy family dynamics there.

I will say would hope if you value you relationship with your brother and his fiance, that you actually told him you do that and offered a comprimise on how to chat.

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