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Sugar-sweetened beverage intake and serum testosterone levels in adult males (2018)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Sugar-sweetened beverage intake and serum testosterone levels in adult males (2018)

#71

Post by at-fates-hands »

serverholic wrote: post #38
knuthsat wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true. The Robert Lustig scaremongering is a big lie. In his talk he mentions the healthy Japanese but he does not mention that they eat more calories from fructose (in percentage of their consumed calories) than USA citizens yet are healthier. Similarly how people stand against epidemiology they should stand against demonizing single ingredients. Apple, by Lustig's opinion, is the worst fruit there is but…

There are lots of examples that support your argument. For example, there are hunter-gatherer tribes living today that consume a significant amount of sugar (up to 60% of their calories) and don't have the same problems with obesity, diabetes, etc. I'm no expert but it seems that the human body doesn't handle bodyfat very well. Perhaps all of this negativity around sugar can be explained by the fact that sugar is cal…

>> there are hunter-gatherer tribes living today that consume a significant amount of sugar (up to 60% of their calories) and don't have the same problems with obesity, diabetes,

The reason they don't have those issues is they are constantly burning calories and in constant motion. H/G is not an easy life and those tribes (both men and women) put in a ton of manual labor. In college I remember one film where a tribe in Papua New Guinea were shown climbing a 15ft tall palm tree. All three males they showed were totally shredded. Six pack, lean upper bodies, biceps and legs were all cut.

I would imagine the sugar gets burned up pretty quickly and it not only a source of calories but a primary source of energy - which is needed for how they live.

Re: Sugar-sweetened beverage intake and serum testosterone levels in adult males (2018)

#72

Post by [deleted] »

andi999 wrote: post #59
narush wrote: post #5

For anyone wondering, this is not an experiment, it's an epidemiological study. I've commented about it on HN before [1], but nutritional epidemiology is in its own league of shady science. If you didn't know, 80% of things you eat give you cancer [2]. That being said, sugar is bad. Main-lining sugar by drinking it in huge concentrations seems even worse! Edit: that being said, if you are doing nutritional epidemiolo…

Which sugar is bad? Is fructose as bad as glucose?

[deleted]

Re: Sugar-sweetened beverage intake and serum testosterone levels in adult males (2018)

#73

Post by cgh »

papandada wrote: post #45

As a 41 year old man getting remarried, I'm personally interested in the subject of serum testosterone. I have noticed a sharp decline the past couple years and I'm sure aging plus computer job plus covid is a noxious blend. General advice out there includes lower stress, lose weight, keep active, get sleep, weightlifting is good, cardio is good but maybe not too much, IF may be good. Scientific studies are good but…

Yeah, maybe I can help here as I faced the same stark realisation some years back.

Generally speaking, higher testosterone levels are correlated with higher protein and fat intakes, mainly because cholesterol is used by the Leydig cells in your balls to produce testosterone. I am not saying you should start adding butter to your coffee or whatever other dumb things the keto people are saying, but going very low-fat and/or low protein is not good for your test levels.

I greatly increased the amount of animal protein I eat to roughly 2g/kg (roughly 1g/lb, if that's easier). I ignored fat, just consuming it with my protein sources. To make room for the added protein, which is now the centre of my diet, I eliminated most starchy carbs (pasta, rice, etc) as they are low-value foods. I still eat bread because, well, freshly baked bread is delicious and I am not a low-carb zealot. My main carb sources are now vegetables, lentils and beans, the latter two of which have some protein as well. But the best sources are always animal-based and this will no doubt irritate many people who read this.

I had my T levels taken before and after and I saw a pretty big increase in free test. But to be honest, test levels vary a lot even over the course of a single day so the best thing is to simply go by the old standby: are you consistently getting wood in the morning? If yes, you are probably okay.

Another bonus to the high-protein life is increased muscle protein synthesis. When you are young, this is largely hormonally driven but as you get older, falling test levels make it more difficult to build and keep muscle. This leads to age-related muscle wasting, also called sarcopenia. You can delay this process simply by eating a lot more protein to drive an anabolic response.

Re: Sugar-sweetened beverage intake and serum testosterone levels in adult males (2018)

#74

Post by Jiocus »

stryan wrote: post #29
jack9 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you stick to fountain sodas, it won't wreck your teeth for decades. The acid in the can (and 2liters, small bottles, etc) is very hard on them.

Is there a study about that? I'd love to see more info on difference in health effects between fountain soda vs bottled/canned.

I think this is a misconception. It's not about the fountain vs canned or bottle soda.

Carbon dioxide lowers the pH of a drink to 4.5, which is acidic. The acid pH level erodes teeth and one shouldn't brush their teeth too soon after drinking soda because the enamel can be damaged. (Edit: acid on your teeth is always bad, brushing or not.)

Getting a soft drink from a fountain often means getting a straw for your cup as well. Using a straw to drink does help somewhat to bypass the soda from making contact with the teeth in the first place.

Use a straw, save a tooth.

Re: Sugar-sweetened beverage intake and serum testosterone levels in adult males (2018)

#75

Post by nextos »

renewiltord wrote: post #42
bellyfullofbac wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember reading a news story that an international organization (in my memory it was the UN) wanted to issue a warning about all sugar, but the US government representatives lobbied hard for the wording to be changed, because of the US food industry. Sadly I once tried to refind this story by googling but couldn't find it again, so I might as well be screaming, "the second coming is nigh!"

It's got to be either this or some sort of absorption mechanism with fiber+fructose, right? I've heard the following few, but I have no evidence: * The lobbying thing * That fiber gets you full so you don't eat as much fructose * That fiber modifies the absorption process

It's really well known that fiber interacts with the gut microbiome and the immune system. There's at least a decade of mainstream publications backing up that fiber helps inducing regulatory T cells. These are needed to avoid inflammation.

Re: Sugar-sweetened beverage intake and serum testosterone levels in adult males (2018)

#76

Post by serverholic »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #62
serverholic wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I'm talking about honey or plain white sugar depending on the tribe. I forgot their names but there are 3 main tribes that I remember being studied. Two of them ate significant amounts of honey and a third traded for refined white sugar.

Got it, I think this may be one that you were referring to? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadza_people >Honey represents a substantial portion of the Hadza diet (~10-20% of calories)

As a followup here's a paper on the various tribes. Sorry I don't have a download link to the full PDF: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24746602/

In that paper they also reference the Mbuti pygmies of the Congo. Specifically: "The Mbuti of the Congo forests eat large amounts of honey. According to Ichikawa (1981), honey is their favorite food. At times, during the rainy season up to 80% of the calories in their diet come from honey."

Re: Sugar-sweetened beverage intake and serum testosterone levels in adult males (2018)

#77

Post by arcticbull »

andi999 wrote: post #59
narush wrote: post #5

For anyone wondering, this is not an experiment, it's an epidemiological study. I've commented about it on HN before [1], but nutritional epidemiology is in its own league of shady science. If you didn't know, 80% of things you eat give you cancer [2]. That being said, sugar is bad. Main-lining sugar by drinking it in huge concentrations seems even worse! Edit: that being said, if you are doing nutritional epidemiolo…

Which sugar is bad? Is fructose as bad as glucose?

Usually, glucose is regarded as the worst from an insulin resistance perspective - makes it way directly to your blood causing a large spike in blood sugar.

Fructose isn’t as bad from that perspective because it has to be metabolized by the liver first. But with that in mind, consuming too much fructose can lead to nonalcoholic fatty liver disease which is basically cirrhosis but from other causes.

Re: Sugar-sweetened beverage intake and serum testosterone levels in adult males (2018)

#78

Post by kixiQu »

klipklop wrote: post #3

Is it the sugar or BPA lined cans? Also do they mean "sugar" or high fructose corn syrup? Seems like men had higher test levels in the era of glass bottles and real sugar soda.

I do agree that this investigation seems warranted but they are specific about saying that it seems like "some component" in the beverages is responsible, not even saying glucose or fructose etc. etc.

Re: Sugar-sweetened beverage intake and serum testosterone levels in adult males (2018)

#79

Post by phonypc »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #54
tansey wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sugar basically doesn’t exist in nature without fiber Honey?

Yes, dear? Jokes aside, there are a few natural sugar sources without fiber, like sugar cane (it has fiber, but we just spit it). I think we can all agree that eating too much honey or sugar cane juice would be bad for our health. There's also sugars like inulin ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inulin ), which are actually classified as soluble fiber because we can't digest them, so the bacteria in our digestive syste…

Inulins just aren't sugars. As you say, they're categorized as soluble fiber. Any definition of sugar that included inulins would include all soluble fibers.

Re: Sugar-sweetened beverage intake and serum testosterone levels in adult males (2018)

#80

Post by serverholic »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #71
serverholic wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lots of examples that support your argument. For example, there are hunter-gatherer tribes living today that consume a significant amount of sugar (up to 60% of their calories) and don't have the same problems with obesity, diabetes, etc. I'm no expert but it seems that the human body doesn't handle bodyfat very well. Perhaps all of this negativity around sugar can be explained by the fact that sugar is cal…

>> there are hunter-gatherer tribes living today that consume a significant amount of sugar (up to 60% of their calories) and don't have the same problems with obesity, diabetes, The reason they don't have those issues is they are constantly burning calories and in constant motion. H/G is not an easy life and those tribes (both men and women) put in a ton of manual labor. In college I remember one film where a tribe…

That supports my claim. If they burn off the calories then they wont get fat and therefore avoid metabolic issues.

My whole point is that the bodyfat is causing the issues. If sugar was the root cause then we should be seeing diabetes, etc. in these hunter-gatherer tribes.

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