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The health benefits of better air

dynomight.net

441–450 of 471 posts

Re: The health benefits of better air

#441

This article seems to make fantastic jumps from the believable -- mortality from overall air pollution (e.g. in Delhi) to the frankly unbelievable -- your ultrasonic humidifier supposedly reducing your life by nearly an hour each night, or that a daily commute between Newark and NYC takes half a year off your life. According to this logic, anyone who works in the subway should be dying, what, 10 years earlier? Which…

> These statistics are just not passing the smell test. These numbers are derived from estimations, for sure. But they are sophisticated estimations and serve to rank other health risks in life. In rich countries we usually obsesses about things like pesticides in food or „small particulate matter“ to an extent that it is absurd. Air quality is a real threat in many countries but not anymore in the US or most of Euro…

“Air quality is a real threat in many countries but not anymore in the US”

Couldn’t be more wrong.

As the author casually admits, we know nothing without experiments. End of story.

What makes your statement so wrong is that it takes decades for the consequences to show up, if they are measurable at all, in non experimental studies. That is exactly the same reason that cigarettes were considered safe for so long. Health consequences take decades to show up and without experiments all we get are loose correlations. Air quality in many places in America is getting worse, the size of the population in these areas is massive. To declare to potential health consequences 60 years in the future without any solid experimental evidence is the same as the doctors of the 50’s telling patients to smoke up, there’s no evidence cigarettes are bad. Exactly the same.

Re: The health benefits of better air

#442
post #428
post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe works for one small location, but that doesn't put nearly enough water in the air for common humidifier use cases of a gallon a day or more.

This seems crazy to me. I have to dehumidify my home to keep it at 35%. Humidity is a constant battle. I couldn’t imagine paying to dump water in my air and promote mold.

This is very climate dependent. New Orleans or Miami will have much more natural humidity than Boulder or even Boston in the winter.

Re: The health benefits of better air

#443

This article seems to make fantastic jumps from the believable -- mortality from overall air pollution (e.g. in Delhi) to the frankly unbelievable -- your ultrasonic humidifier supposedly reducing your life by nearly an hour each night, or that a daily commute between Newark and NYC takes half a year off your life. According to this logic, anyone who works in the subway should be dying, what, 10 years earlier? Which…

I find it hugely suspicious that huge claims are made but the methodology behind the numbers presented in the first figure is not explained at all.

Further down, correlation plots are shown but no analysis of potential confounders that could affect life expectancy as well, like access to medical care, education, wealth.

Re: The health benefits of better air

#444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

should all diesel cars have lead fumes pumped into the cockpit? Should all alcoholic drinks contain methanol?

Frivolous response. Diesel vehicles are extremely hazardous causing great harm to millions but go under regulated because of money. ICEs should die. Alcoholic drinks don't directly harm anyone else in their consumption and the QALY/micromorts involved are small. Do you have any other rude, unscientific arguments?

no need to label other people's comments as rude.

Also, the suggestion to make products more deadly so that they are used less seems like bad policy. Reduction of harms usually does not mean killing the patient.

Re: The health benefits of better air

#445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve always made it a game to see how little I can use my brakes, whether in bumper-to-bumper traffic or more wide open suburban roads. I never understand why people need to race up to red lights just to do a hard brake. I take solace thinking they probably replace their brakes 20% more frequently.

I did that too and my brakes rusted from lack of use. Ended up having to get towed for an expensive repair..

That’s a bummer to hear, and I saw other folks mentioning that on this thread too. Could you describe the climate in which you’re located? Maybe a humid, salty coastal climate will affect that differently than a dry, dusty climate.

Re: The health benefits of better air

#446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all particles are equally toxic. If I had to guess, the smoke from a recently-extinguished candle is probably condensed wax vapor rather than PAHs and heavy metals.

I don't think condensed wax vapor has looks like the dark smoke that comes off a recently extinguished candle. I'm pretty sure it's carbon compounds from the wick.

The black smoke is soot from partially burned wax and it's definitely carcinogenic.

Re: The health benefits of better air

#447
post #201

This article seems to make fantastic jumps from the believable -- mortality from overall air pollution (e.g. in Delhi) to the frankly unbelievable -- your ultrasonic humidifier supposedly reducing your life by nearly an hour each night, or that a daily commute between Newark and NYC takes half a year off your life. According to this logic, anyone who works in the subway should be dying, what, 10 years earlier? Which…

I put together a monster air quality monitor with just about every sensor I could cram into it. Dust sensors, geiger counters, the whole works. One of the biggest problems I found was indoor CO2 levels. High CO2 levels (much less than dangerous CO2 levels) make you groggy, sleepy, and can induce headaches. I now get notifications to open my windows when CO2 levels pass a certain threshold. https://dheera.net/projects…

Is it possible to buy one of these from you?

Re: The health benefits of better air

#448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These statistics are just not passing the smell test. These numbers are derived from estimations, for sure. But they are sophisticated estimations and serve to rank other health risks in life. In rich countries we usually obsesses about things like pesticides in food or „small particulate matter“ to an extent that it is absurd. Air quality is a real threat in many countries but not anymore in the US or most of Euro…

“Air quality is a real threat in many countries but not anymore in the US” Couldn’t be more wrong. As the author casually admits, we know nothing without experiments. End of story. What makes your statement so wrong is that it takes decades for the consequences to show up, if they are measurable at all, in non experimental studies. That is exactly the same reason that cigarettes were considered safe for so long. Heal…

> What makes your statement so wrong is that it takes decades for the consequences to show up, if they are measurable at all, in non experimental studies.

So, you're telling me the air quality is getting worse despite this trend not being observed, yet? There is a logical fallacy somewhere. Furthermore, the link between lung cancer and cigarette smoking was well observed already in the 50s but the tobacco industry naturally downplayed the risks.

BTW: It is an established fact that air quality in the cities of 19th century was way worse -- mainly due to the fact that people cooked and heated their places with open fires and coal. For some insight on the UK: https://theconversation.com/air-pollution-in-victorian-era-b...

Re: The health benefits of better air

#449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your risk tolerance. Candle emissions have a low but known impact on your health. Plug in air fresheners don't have a known impact but they have god knows what chemicals in them. Maybe you'll get cancer at 60, maybe it would take three lifetimes of exposure to have any effect.

I genuinely can't be convinced there are people alive today that the risk of one scented candle in the home and/or plug in air fresheners are higher than the background danger of auto, industry, and just general pollution. This seems like an anxiety in search of a problem, or am I very underestimating it? It just seems like the road in front of my house is probably more of a problem than my vanilla candle.

I once forgot to extinguish a candle before going to bed, it burned down, and produced a massive amount of soot. Their was a stripe of black suit on the wall where the candle was standing, a black spot on the ceiling, and my upper lip and nostrils were black from soot.

I'm not sure what effect on my health a one time event like this has, but if I can avoid it I will.

I can't do anything about the pollution outside.

Re: The health benefits of better air

#450
post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bubbling air through quicklime slush is an easy way of removing CO2. You can turn the calcium carbonate that forms back into quicklime by applying heat. But it's probably better if you invested into a counterflow heat exchanger for ventilating your home. You can recover a large part of the heating/cooling energy.

> by applying heat More heat than is common for home appliances I know! A commonly referenced stat is 825 C. There's really a gradient: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_carbonate#Calcinatio...

Ah yes, with "heat" I meant a nice fire.
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