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Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

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Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#381

Post by Siira »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #349
thombles wrote: post #120

Incidentally, if you have a business registered for GST in Australia you have to submit a quarterly activity statement. The tax office website had bizarre authentication requirements but the browser plugin was at least cross-platform. They now require you to use the myGovID app, which is - you guessed it - available only on the App Store and Play Store. You can't even run a business without being part of the duopoly.…

In India, 3 major tax departments force you into proprietary software via 1. Gst department makes json data which enables third party devs to prepare stuff but government utilities are in "excel" format only. 2. Income tax department had return utilities in "excel" form and also a "Java" which never worked outside of windows. Now they have made a sleek electron app and guess what, windows only. 3. MCA, companies regi…

> Microsoft lobby is huge

I think an incompetent gov is a much more realistic hypothesis.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#382

Post by trapped »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #23

You can have third-party Android app stores. Can you say the same about Apple? While I agree that Google has market-dominance, they are not anti-competition or anti-consumer in the same sense as Apple. Android is open source, Chrome OS is open source, etc. Google is actually providing and contributing something back to the community. Apple intentionally locks people to specific hardware and to their app store.

It's HW made by private corporation with their own SW and they can insist rules to make sure HW and SW systems are not abused so that most of the users get better user experience. They (Apple) are doing this to protect their users. If you don't agree with it don't buy their HW.

Can you install applications from third party providers on other app bases HW? such as Gaming (XBox, Playstation, Nintendo) Cars (Tesla, Benz, Nissan)

Or in non SW/HW world can you force stores such as Walmart, HomeDepot, Macys, Nordstorm to sell goods from third party seller? And, even these stores charge fees for selling items made by other manufacturers.

If you don't like ecosystems made by Google and Apple don't buy their HW/SW.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#383

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

parasubvert wrote: post #76
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seek this asinine take everywhere around here. Opening these platforms doesn't kill them, it forces them to compete.

It is not asinine just because you disagree. They already are competing. There is Android, and there is iOS. Apple certainly could be hemmed in on clear areas of conflict like Spotify. Opening the platform is not traditional antitrust because consumers like it this way - it’s more about charity for the competition.

I think it's asinine.

Fragmentation: If Apple competes well there won't be any because their app store will be the best on merit not at gunpoint.

Safety: Don't sideload or install unsigned apps. Keep your phone up to date. This doesn't change much except possibly give you the option to be unsafe.

Payment processing: We already see integration with Cash app, Google wallet, Apple pay, Stripe, PayPal, etc. This is not an issue.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#384

Post by Humdeee »

protomyth wrote: post #350
simonh wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many billions of dollars, over how many decades did Spotify spend developing that platform, OS and app distribution system? How many times did they almost go to the wall over the commercial risks that took? Anyway as I already pointed out it’s effectively 15%, not 30%. Also the vast majority, over 99% (literally, I looked it up) of Spotify app users earn Apple nothing because they use it add supported and all the…

Also the vast majority, over 99% (literally, I looked it up) of Spotify app users earn Apple nothing because they use it add supported and all the add revenue goes to Spotify. They bought the phone from Apple, so Apple made their money.

This is the comment that lost me. I'm sorry, how should more of the pie go to Spotify here using that argument?

Apple 'made their money' on the hardware, therefore Spotify is entitled to a larger ratio on the software? Is that the correct interpretation?

Edit: I'll take your downvote as being it was the correct interpretation. It's okay, I didn't expect a reply.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#385

Post by amelius »

emodendroket wrote: post #378
amelius wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people prefer the safety of Disney World. Others like to go base jumping from some mountain in the Alps. Shouldn't both be possible? Or do we want a Mickey Mouse in the Alps telling us to go back for our own safety?

It is hardly impossible to install third-party software on your phone if you're up for base jump levels of risk.

It's getting more difficult every day.

And I don't want to punch Mickey Mouse every time I go climbing.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#386

Post by Mindwipe »

havernator wrote: post #364
berkes wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In essence that is arguing that an abusive monopoly (facebook) must be fought with another abusive monopoly (apple).

Absent government regulation? Yes, exactly. If Mecha-Godzilla shows up I'm very, very happy to have Godzilla around to fuck them up, even if Godzilla is a dangerous monster and it would be better to have no monsters.

And screw the vulnerable people your Gozilla murders under it's feet eh?

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#387

Post by cdogl »

Mindwipe wrote: post #329
gonehome wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I realize that it is a benefit for older computer illiterate people." It's a benefit for computer literate people too. - IAP allows easy tracking of subscriptions and cancellation. You don't have to call and argue with a retentions rep for an hour to cancel a service. - Apple restrictions on tracking limit abuse from ad driven business models. - Apple can require features like Apple ID to be implemented alongside…

> If they lose that leverage we as Apple users will lose these benefits, and for what? Because you literally don't get people in autocratic regimes killed because the single choke point of software that might enable them to escape detection is removed. Because you remove Apple's rampant discrimination against some kinds of speech and the people that effects. Because Apple attacks businesses with any involvement in se…

I agree with your points about sex workers and speech about sex in general, but your comments about people in autocratic regimes ring a little hyperbolic. Chinese [1] users were able to use Signal until the Chinese state seemed to block it at the network layer. WhatsApp is blocked too. That's unfortunate, but what's Apple got to do with it? And what exactly could they do to prevent it that the state wouldn't get in the way of?

[1] I'm assuming that "autocratic" here refers to China - though despite the lack of political freedom and the awful situation with regard to ethnic minorities, I don't think that's a very helpful or expressive label.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#388

Post by gonehome »

Mindwipe wrote: post #329
gonehome wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I realize that it is a benefit for older computer illiterate people." It's a benefit for computer literate people too. - IAP allows easy tracking of subscriptions and cancellation. You don't have to call and argue with a retentions rep for an hour to cancel a service. - Apple restrictions on tracking limit abuse from ad driven business models. - Apple can require features like Apple ID to be implemented alongside…

> If they lose that leverage we as Apple users will lose these benefits, and for what? Because you literally don't get people in autocratic regimes killed because the single choke point of software that might enable them to escape detection is removed. Because you remove Apple's rampant discrimination against some kinds of speech and the people that effects. Because Apple attacks businesses with any involvement in se…

> “ Because you literally don't get people in autocratic regimes killed because the single choke point of software that might enable them to escape detection is removed.”

If anything, Apple’s control here enables better protection for users. You think authoritarian regimes don’t own phones? You think Android is safer in China?

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#389

Post by osrec »

trapped wrote: post #382
encryptluks2 wrote: post #23

You can have third-party Android app stores. Can you say the same about Apple? While I agree that Google has market-dominance, they are not anti-competition or anti-consumer in the same sense as Apple. Android is open source, Chrome OS is open source, etc. Google is actually providing and contributing something back to the community. Apple intentionally locks people to specific hardware and to their app store.

It's HW made by private corporation with their own SW and they can insist rules to make sure HW and SW systems are not abused so that most of the users get better user experience. They (Apple) are doing this to protect their users. If you don't agree with it don't buy their HW. Can you install applications from third party providers on other app bases HW? such as Gaming (XBox, Playstation, Nintendo) Cars (Tesla, Benz…

Thanks for the advice. I don't agree with Apple, and don't buy their hardware or software.

When I'm buying a general purpose computing device (which is what smartphones have become), I expect a significant degree of flexibility in how I can use it, and don't need the vendor to arbitrarily start placing limits on that flexibility to "protect" me. Especially when those limits happen to coincide with the financial goals of the vendor.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#390

Post by gonehome »

amelius wrote: post #338
gonehome wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree - Apple needs the control to have the leverage that makes their ecosystem better. It's in the interest of their customers for them to have this leverage and it requires that their 'store' is the only available store so app devs can't bypass their requirements. I like Apple forcing use of in-app-payments, I like Apple giving me subscription control to make canceling easy. I like Apple blocking app tracking and…

> Apple needs the control to have the leverage that makes their ecosystem better. You and Apple are conflating "App Store" and "Content Filter". We can have multiple App Stores and multiple types of content filters. It doesn't need to be like the current situation, with Apple in full control over everything.

This doesn’t work.

It’s not content filtering that I care about, it’s the ability for Apple to enforce standards around usability and features that are better for their users.

Without control of the store they lose that leverage.

App devs will just ship outside of it and include all the tracking they want. It’ll also block Apple from being able to require things like Apple ID or Apple Pay support which provide direct benefits to users, but can run counter to what app devs want.

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