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Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

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Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#291

You can have third-party Android app stores. Can you say the same about Apple? While I agree that Google has market-dominance, they are not anti-competition or anti-consumer in the same sense as Apple. Android is open source, Chrome OS is open source, etc. Google is actually providing and contributing something back to the community. Apple intentionally locks people to specific hardware and to their app store.

As a user of iOS, this is precisely why I go with Apple, and why I push my family to do the same. Particularly for the more elderly in my family, Apple's setup (by and large) prevents them from doing anything that would screw themselves over. Removing Apple's control removes my desire to be apart of that ecosystem, and I know that is true for many others outside our insular little community here.

God dammit you can still install root CA certs relatively easily on iOS and there are plenty of online scams that trick people into it (especially since installing apps outside the App Store sometimes requires it.) Don't lie to yourself and everyone else that Apple has somehow created a computer where the user can magically avoid fucking themselves over.

It's not like the App Store even prevents malware anyway. All Apple does during review is run the app and watch network traffic via a proxy and ask "does this look like it's violating our rules?" There's no instrumentation and there's nothing to prevent apps from changing behavior after the review. These aren't loopholes abused just by flashlight apps but even large companies like Facebook routinely abuse them. Don't forget that you can also get code onto people's phones by providing a completely closed and never reviewed dylib to devs and they'll just include it in their apps if it solves a problem for them. This is another extremely common tactic to distribute iOS malware (and another one Facebook likes.) Also lets not forget all of the outright scams on the AppStore and the fact that it more or less prevents the sharing of community maintained software (chat apps in particular) which tend to align more closely with users interests.

There is absolutely no reason not to allow users to be able to enter an alternate App repository and push service in the settings App other than that it protects Apple's monopoly.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#292
Honestly I am for a single store and for pushing all things through Apple Pay etc etc (send your hate of my fanboyism to email in my profile). But…

It seems this is a fight not worth dying for. Sure Apple and Google will fight and spend millions on lawyers but ultimately whether they win in court they’ll likely lose the next time legislation gets passed. Better to instead be thinking about the next must have gadget or service to further their business than the AppStore.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#293

Honestly I am for a single store and for pushing all things through Apple Pay etc etc (send your hate of my fanboyism to email in my profile). But… It seems this is a fight not worth dying for. Sure Apple and Google will fight and spend millions on lawyers but ultimately whether they win in court they’ll likely lose the next time legislation gets passed. Better to instead be thinking about the next must have gadget o…

Note that Australia fought the entire cigarette industry in multiple courts and won. I think they deal with tech companies. As long as they don't send any Emus.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#294
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy like tracking your app launches? https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-says-itll-change-how-it-coll...

Did you even read the article you linked?

Yes fanboys, Apple cares so much about privacy that they sent your app launches unencrypted and with the IP address to their servers, they are only "fixing" it because of bad PR.

If you use your brain you can conclude that Apple does not care about privacy enough to hire competent developers, this feature design was clearly insecure and against privacy that my any person with a bit of brain and not emotional invested can see it clear, "privacy is only PR, when it comes to actual implementation is irrelevant" ... though I think you could convince me that there is a chance that we could explain this just with pure stupidity, somehow Apple has such a broken process that stupidity triumphs over sane architecture, then yeah I hope you love the fact you use a product from someone that loves privacy but is to stuipid to offer it to you.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#295
post #30

You can have third-party Android app stores. Can you say the same about Apple? While I agree that Google has market-dominance, they are not anti-competition or anti-consumer in the same sense as Apple. Android is open source, Chrome OS is open source, etc. Google is actually providing and contributing something back to the community. Apple intentionally locks people to specific hardware and to their app store.

Google is an ad company. I do not understand why people would choose to use an operating system created by an ad company, designed to harvest their personal information. I'm happy to use an iPhone, knowing my personal information is safe and it reduces my chances of being Harvested by Google.

I'd love to buy an iPhone that is waterproof, has decent battery life, durable screen (that part apparently has gotten better recently, though), can run Firefox (the actual one with proper ad-blocking options) and is generally made to withstand punishment from being used in the field.

Until such a beast is released, I'll stick with my (admittedly) crappy and de-googlified Android phone; I simply can't afford to buy a new iPhone 3-4 times a year because they keep breaking.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#296
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Spotify is $10/month and paying $3 to Apple they get $7/month. If Apple enters with Apple Music and charges $10/month - they're undercutting Spotify while charging the same.

How many billions of dollars, over how many decades did Spotify spend developing that platform, OS and app distribution system? How many times did they almost go to the wall over the commercial risks that took? Anyway as I already pointed out it’s effectively 15%, not 30%. Also the vast majority, over 99% (literally, I looked it up) of Spotify app users earn Apple nothing because they use it add supported and all the…

My impression is that the ad revenue from that 99% is users is still less than the subscription revenue from the 1%.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#297
post #24
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ll me too but if there is an alternative I can still direcr my business to Apple’s store. On the Mac I avoid the store if it’s possible to download directly from the developer so that they don’t have to pay a cut. If there were an alternative Mac App Store I would avoid it too like the plague.

I avoid the Microsoft store on Windows but I use Steam all the time. I've also used Steam on MacOS for those few games that run on MacOS that I wanted to play. I'd can see myself using other stores on iOS depending on the store. If Steam existed on iOS I'd certainly consider it, especially if buying a game that ran across platforms included the iOS version.

I use the MS store for MS software. But avoid Steam if I can as well as they also take a substantial cut (Although this does mean I still get a lot through steam).

Although they're more flexible, if a game sells you a CD-key outside the store (eg on Humble, through promotions, etc) they don't take a cut. Steam only gets it when it's through the Steam store.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not going to name countries and trigger a slugfest. But will include the List of countries with official contact tracing apps[1] and you can search for which services those apps were mandated. EFF commentary on these apps[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_apps#List_of_countrie... [2] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/09/covid-19-tracking-tech...

There's no point to this. If you're going to call out a group for behavior, you should be willing to state their name. You didn't avoid a slugfest, you just confused the issue ye being ambiguous for no reason. The only negative consequences here are a few lost points, and you get that already for making allusions rather than statements with evidence, and providing a list of countries that have tracking apps is not ev…

I presume you haven't read my other comment about the search query. Search for 'COVID app mandatory for' and depending upon your location the results will be either only about your country or the *countries/states which you're asking for.

I assumed the statements I made about COVID app mandatory for services in many countries was a common knowledge. I failed to account that not many keep tabs on stuff happening outside their own country and that many believe the democratic freedoms they enjoy is universal.

Couple of up votes is not worth it to put up with nationalist terrorists. Free speech cannot be taken for granted every where.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#299
I have worked on many mobile app development projects, and I am grateful that google and apple try to protect the consumer. App devs are in full control of the stack in the app, and it is very easy to unintentionally (or intentionally) handle your data insecurely. For example, app devs can disable https communication with their own external APIs, secretly transmit your data on their own servers, harvest your data from other apps like contacts, and build on buggy/sketchy/outdated middleware. And, there is typically no visibility for the user. Yes - same is true for desktop apps. I appreciate Apple's recent moves to make this more transparent. More needs to be done. It is much harder (not impossible) to maliciously handle your data in browsers because of standard security features (like the green lock icon when https is enabled) and powerful dev tools to examine network communication and code libraries. After building many apps, I tend to only install apps from companies that have commercial pressure to handle my data properly.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#300
post #263
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the thing: Apple's exercising market power does bring all sorts of benefits to users. Obvious examples include the new privacy rules they're imposing, in-app purchases allowing any subscriptions to be cancelled with zero hassle. If Apple allowed other app stores, Facebook would almost certainly move to one that let them produce a far more invasive app. And the vast majority of the users will just download Face…

In essence that is arguing that an abusive monopoly (facebook) must be fought with another abusive monopoly (apple).

Yeah, I suppose that is what I am arguing. Apple is absolutely an abusive monopoly, but tackling them alone without simultaneously handling Facebook and co would result in a net loss for the average consumer.
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