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Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

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Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#151

Post by gonehome »

echelon wrote: post #108
gonehome wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree - Apple needs the control to have the leverage that makes their ecosystem better. It's in the interest of their customers for them to have this leverage and it requires that their 'store' is the only available store so app devs can't bypass their requirements. I like Apple forcing use of in-app-payments, I like Apple giving me subscription control to make canceling easy. I like Apple blocking app tracking and…

> Apple needs the control to have the leverage that makes their ecosystem better. It's in the interest of their customers for them to have this leverage and it requires that their 'store' is the only available store so app devs can't bypass their requirements. I don't understand this argument at all. You're almost certainly taking more risk driving in a car than downloading an app, yet you're probably willing to embr…

The web exists, android exists, etc.

I like local control, I think urbit is cool and hope they succeed. I'm a little disturbed by the need for mighty and how we've ended up in a such a messy state of things with modern computing.

It's not about reducing risk or scam apps really - it's about Apple being able to incentivize user-benefiting behavior that ad-driven business models corrupt. Maybe we wouldn't need this in a world that had more CCPA laws with teeth, I'd be happy to live in that world, but we don't.

At least with Apple I have the option to buy hardware from a company with aligned incentives that gives a shit.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#152

Post by m4rtink »

laingc wrote: post #111

Why does half of HN seem intent on ruining the iPhone for the rest of us? The explicit selling proposition of the iPhone is that it is a closed ecosystem . I and my family buy it for precisely this reason. If you want a choice about what you install, you can have it! It's called Android, and hundreds of phone manufacturers are lining up to sell you a compatible handset. Leave us with the one phone manufacturer who ha…

Anything legitimizing loss of user control over hardware and peddling proprietary walled garden as something good and desirable is simply immoral, dangerous for the future of Humanity and should not be legal.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#153

Post by bogwog »

hugi wrote: post #132
thombles wrote: post #120

Incidentally, if you have a business registered for GST in Australia you have to submit a quarterly activity statement. The tax office website had bizarre authentication requirements but the browser plugin was at least cross-platform. They now require you to use the myGovID app, which is - you guessed it - available only on the App Store and Play Store. You can't even run a business without being part of the duopoly.…

How is that legal? Isn't that just incompetent government?

Yes, Google and Apple's current situation is the result of incompetent government.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#154

Post by simondotau »

fredophile wrote: post #145
havernator wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now, ~100% of the software available for iOS has to follow Apple's rules, offer a consistent and safe payment method, and install through the App Store. I assume you think that would change, else why have other app stores. That's what I don't want. I want as close to 100% of the software for iOS as possible to have to follow the rules. That's part of why I chose iOS.

Would you be willing to pay a premium for that? What if Apple allowed other stores and simultaneously allowed apps to sell things for more on their store than they charge on other stores? Then an app maker could release on both and charge more to account for Apple's cut and any extra expenses they have releasing on their store.

> Would you be willing to pay a premium for that?

That's literally what millions of customers do, whether they do so explicitly or not.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#155

Post by fredophile »

tracer4201 wrote: post #49
encryptluks2 wrote: post #23

You can have third-party Android app stores. Can you say the same about Apple? While I agree that Google has market-dominance, they are not anti-competition or anti-consumer in the same sense as Apple. Android is open source, Chrome OS is open source, etc. Google is actually providing and contributing something back to the community. Apple intentionally locks people to specific hardware and to their app store.

I specifically buy Apple products because I trust their App Store. I trust Apple with my information. I’m counting on these guys to get out software I download from the App Store. And I trust them to protect my privacy, better than anyone else. You’re calling them anti consumer. But that’s wrong. This is why I give them my business, and if they bowed to pressure so people can execute whatever software on my device, I…

Part of the problem I have with them is they're bundling things in ways I don't want. What if I like their hardware and want Siri but don't want to use their app store? I don't believe most iOS buyers are buying it for privacy reasons. I bet if this was unbundled and their was an alternate store for iOS that openly used your data but apps cost 10% less a lot of consumers would choose it. You can argue that might not be a wise choice but right now its not a choice they're given.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#156

Post by 8note »

havernator wrote: post #102
theli0nheart wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ~100% of the software available for iOS has to follow Apple's rules, offer a consistent and safe payment method, and install through the App Store. Scams are rampant in the App Store. Give an unlocked iPhone to a 5 year old and they'll spend $1000 before you know it. This is not something worth defending. https://9to5mac.com/2021/02/12/developer-reveals-fake-app-st...

Pointing out one bad thing doesn't change a bunch of other good things, nor does adding more app stores seem like a useful solution to the problem raised.

Really it's that adding more app stores doesn't remove those things either.

Even with things going through apple, you don't have a safe and consistent payments scheme.

With more app stores, you can still get every app that's available on the Apple app store, just as you can now. You may not have access to every app, but you don't today either

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#157

Post by ThatPlayer »

kaiju0 wrote: post #10
jbverschoor wrote: post #8

Well I love my Apple App Store. It protects me for certain things with payments, and it’s another line of defense against some attacks.

Yep it neatly organizes everything with subscriptions and vetted apps into a single location. Can't ask for more. The only people that want out of it is people who want a bigger rev cut, to bypass app store rules and infect devices.

I want out because Apple doesn't approve the apps I want to use. Everything from emulators to cloud gaming (Xbox Game Streaming and Google Stadia) and alternative browser engines (all browsers are just Safari skins on iOS) are blocked by Apple because of their app store rules. These types of apps being blocked by Apple does not benefit anyone but Apple.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#158

Post by simondotau »

shawnz wrote: post #143
hugi wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wat? No. I'd buy another phone. There's plenty of choices.

It will be inconvenient and even impossible to migrate some things (for example contacts, iMessage history, app data). Espcially consider how difficult it would be for a novice user to migrate. And what are those other choices? Presumably you are not considering Android devices.

It's not Apple's fault if Android devices aren't suitable alternatives.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#159

Post by bern4444 »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #23

You can have third-party Android app stores. Can you say the same about Apple? While I agree that Google has market-dominance, they are not anti-competition or anti-consumer in the same sense as Apple. Android is open source, Chrome OS is open source, etc. Google is actually providing and contributing something back to the community. Apple intentionally locks people to specific hardware and to their app store.

I view this in a different light. We have two options for platforms, one for each idea. One idea being a platform that allows for third party app stores (android) and another platform that does not (apple).

We already have a choice, between these ideas, some prefer one over the other.

I personally prefer the platform that is better integrated, designed, and backed by the company already making the hardware and software. If I have an issue, I know who to go to.

If the other option were more obviously beneficial, why haven't alternative App Stores on Android succeeded yet? What's holding the maintainers of those alternative stores back from growth?

Maybe the answer in this case is that it really is just better (in a relativistic way) for the majority of people to interact with the same entity producing the rest of their phone's core software and perhaps even easier for developers to not have to contend with varying rules and policies across multiple App Store platforms.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#160

Post by hnick »

thombles wrote: post #120

Incidentally, if you have a business registered for GST in Australia you have to submit a quarterly activity statement. The tax office website had bizarre authentication requirements but the browser plugin was at least cross-platform. They now require you to use the myGovID app, which is - you guessed it - available only on the App Store and Play Store. You can't even run a business without being part of the duopoly.…

Or you can pay an accountant. But yes, I hate it.
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